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Themistocles' General Squad Advice Thread

Discussion in 'Squad Help' started by Themistocles, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Ah, that’s unfortunate. At least you shouldn’t see it in GAC.

    My guess is whatever the counter is, it’ll use mostly (if not all) ships you already have. There aren’t that many ships in the game and depending on if Executor is best with BH or Empire, both of them can be countered pretty well now. It’s all going to come down to what the ship can do.
     
  2. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Ominous wording from CG Crumb on the Gambit podcast. "Executor's power will be commensurate with the requirements used to unlock it." (Paraphrased)
     
  3. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Open question for anyone. If you were me, and your squad arena is getting tougher with all the JMKs (it's not the hardest arena in the world, I typically fall to the 40s or the 50s and climb back up)....or if your fleet arena is relatively placid (I think there's only 10 of us who actively climb)...you would probably prioritize a JMK/GAS squad before the Executor fleet, amirite?

    These are old Day 1 respective arenas. Thank goodness new players can't enter these old shards.
     
  4. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Of those 10 active players, how likely are any of them to get Executor? Even then, I have to imagine that there will be some way to beat the Executor. I know I’m saying this right after CG said they were basically nerfing most of the non-GL counts, but there’s going to be some way to win. Most of the time, the previous meta has the best shot at beating the new meta. You’ve got a pretty good fleet. The only possible issue is if Malevolence ends up being the best Executor counter and you don’t have it yet.

    You compare that to squad arena where you’re dropping to the 40s or 50s, which is a lot to climb every day. JMK will definitely hold better than SEE on defense. As more and more people start getting CAT and/or JMK, it’s going to get harder. JMK is the best JMK counter, especially since you’d have CAT by then.

    That being said, it might not be a bad idea to wait and see. We know Lord Vader is coming. Depending on his requirements, you might be closer to him than JMK. Let’s assume Executor is required, you’re close on Vader, Padme, Bossk, and Piett already. There might be some other Empire overlap with SEE, if LV is an Empire GL. You would still need to get GAS, which is not ideal. Plus, Bad Batch is a massive gear sink.

    You’d need more R8s for LV, but he could be even more powerful than JMK. And you’d also get the Executor in the process. We have no idea. If you hoard your gear, you could wait and see how it plays out.

    The only other thing is that GAS event might be getting way harder after the changes. The last time they messed with GAS’ kit, the event GAS also got changed. I think it was unintentional. Something they did elsewhere caused GAS to counter one final time before kneeling. Originally, when GAS kneeled, he wouldn’t counter that turn. CG like that and kept it, but it did affect the event unit. Now, GAS is going to get up twice as fast and recover all his protection when he loses all his team. That would make pretty much any guide prior to the changes worthless. In all likelihood, you’d need even more/higher relic characters to try and deal with it.
     
  5. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I think you are confirming my lean @Electricboa . I feel like I can take a gamble and hope that my relatively inert fleet arena doesn't fill up with 20 Executors, which I don't think is super likely. Seems like a pretty dead shard.

    LV might be better than JMK, but my hand might be forced. My LS Geo TB performance is utter trash. Don't have a single 4/4 team. I really need a 4/4 LS team. Can Shaak Ti Clones 4/4?
     
  6. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    I would say it’s unlikely that someone is going to come out of nowhere with an Executor. Now the active people in your arena, maybe. I would say it probably depends on how many GLs they have and whether they have or are going for JMK. If they have JMK, I would say they probably won’t have a lot of resources to go for Vader. That’s probably the main reason CG is doing it this way. When they released GLs two at once, people just picked one instead of trying to keep up with them if they come out one at a time.

    Shaak Ti with 501st clones can. In fact, I usually like her more than GAS for the lead in LS TB. Gas does great damage, but he can’t heal the team like Shaak Ti can. That’s with a full G13 team, though. I’m not sure what the relic minimum is to win. I believe I had R7 on all my 501st clones before LS TB. Shaak Ti was R5 for a while, but now is R7 because of JMK.

    Once you have CAT, your Padme team will probably be able to 4/4 a node. Really, it might be possible now. I’ve done 4/4 with C-3PO in the last slot. My C-3PO is G13, but I don’t think his gear level matters as much. G11 might work unless the AOEs get him.

    You figure you’re going to kind of end up getting 501st for GAS either way. Whether you go with JMK or LV, GAS is going to be needed either on JMK’s final team or as a requirement for LV. The 501st and Shaak Ti get you a team that can clear nodes and can do the KAM mission. If you can get KAM, I’m not sure they’ll care too much if you have other teams. Right now, KAM is the main prize people want from LS Geo.

    So irrespective of which GL you go for after Kylo, GAS is your next step. Even if you were going to get JML, you would want GAS. Actually getting GAS is going to take some time, so you’ll be able to see how LV vs JMK actually plays out. Now, the 501st clones kind of depends. They’re the best non-GL GAS team, but if you were to choose to go for LV, then you’d have Bad Batch as an option for the KAM mission.
     
  7. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm interesting video by Cubs/Gridan. In all reality it was really Cubs hosting Gridan, and Gridan providing all of the analysis and breakdown. In it, Gridan goes to bat for a JMK squad arena comp that drops GAS in favor of a relic'd C3PO. His argument is that it is a superior defensive AND offensive climbing JMK composition. In a nutshell he argues you get the same cooldown increase benefit of GAS via Confuse (albeit more slowly) but you also get the cooldown reduction benefit for your toons, and you can cycle through big hits from CAT more quickly.

    Has anybody seen this comp in their squad arenas?

    So why is this potentially important to me? Post-SLKR, what's set in stone is that I will relic my Armorer, my CAT, and then I will get a relic KAM-capable squad because I owe the guild. After that though...I was going to go for GAS (and my GG/Droids squad is pretty nicely staged for GAS gear-wise, just have to throw some more gear on.) and THEN JMK.

    But if C3PO is the superior 5th in the JMK squad, then I could delay GAS and come back to him. I have C3PO and will soon have CAT, so then it really becomes a matter of chasing down JMK requirements, and I could potentially get to JMK sooner. Then I circle back to GAS.

    Is this a bad idea? Since post-KAM squad I'd be so close to GAS, should I just go down that road?
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
  8. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    To play Devil’s Advocate, GAS gives you more than just cooldown increases—though those do help. He does a lot of damage and can apply armor shred. That armor shred really does add up. Now, post-nerf, GAS won’t do as much damage.

    But I think it’s really going to come down to what you’re holding against. JMK teams with CAT are going to win on offense because the AI is scattershot on who they target.

    So outside of that, what’s left? JML probably has the best chance against JMK because he can’t be taken out by CAT. Post-nerf, GAS’s damage might go down. Same with JKL overall, though his damage against GLs should go up with his stun attack. The big thing is how fast you can cycle through to the ultimate and then ignore GK’s taunt. Is that enough time for C-3PO to really ramp up? Maybe.

    My arena has 13 JMKs, including me. Of those, one doesn’t have CAT and is using KAM. One is using the team you’re asking about with C-3PO can CAT. Everyone else is using GAS and CAT.

    The person using C-3PO does hold well, but all the JMKs do. He also did have some trouble beating my GAS variant. He said he kept timing out. This was a few days ago and I don’t know for sure what team he was using at the time. Mods may have also been a factor, since I’ve got pretty good mods.

    For the most part, my arena more or less plays by the ideology that as long as you don’t drop too far on defense, everything is fine. So unless there’s suddenly some reason to stop using GAS, people won’t.

    GAS is a great character. And if you’re going to go for JMK, then you’re going to be gearing Magnaguard, GK, Negotiator, and Shaak Ti, all used for the GAS event. You pretty much already have the team for the Padme portion of the event. C-3PO will probably need more to meet the GP requirement, but he shouldn’t need to be geared that much. All that’s left is the Separatist portion. You already have Grievous at R7 and will have Magnaguard at R5 for JMK, so you might as well finish your separatist droid team. After that, you just need Ventress.

    All in all, it’s not that far out of your way. GAS will work great with 501st, but he’s also used on any Jedi team. You figure for GAC/TW and TB, you won’t necessarily use a JMK arena team. If you can, having Padme as a separate team will let you clear more waves. GAS works well on her team. So does C-3PO. CAT would, too. Depending on how you want to divide up your teams, having GAS there is nice.

    You could do GAS after JMK, but given how good he is outside of GL teams, you’d probably get more use out of him than most of the JMK requirements. I would also add that there’s a mission in P2 that requires GAS and Ahsoka, like the DS one that requires Dooku and Ventress. Clearing 4/4 might be tricky without R8 on GAS, but you should easily clear one or two waves. That’s free points.
     
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  9. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    This is a combo post for myself and my kids. GAS was definitely a character on all of our roadmaps post SLKR...but the initial testing results look not great for GAS. As sacrilegious as it sounds, if GAS/clones has lost serious viability as a standard non-GL squad, maybe we should skip GAS and stay content with a Shaak/501st KAM-capable squad?
     
  10. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    The early results are pretty disastrous for GAS and Vader. Their damage output dropped substantially. Part of me wonders if CG is going to change something to get it closer to what it was before. GAS still has a good kit. He still hits a lot and can reduce cool downs as well as apply armor shred.

    At the end of the day, he’s still a very good Jedi unit, which is important for JML and JMK. I would be surprised if people stopped using him on those teams. Everyone is still using GAS in my arena for both Jedi GLs.

    JML has more options, since he’s a generic Jedi leader, but for JMK I’m not sure there are that many options. If not GAS, then who? I guess KAM or GMY, but that cool down reduction on non-GLs is nice. And he’ll call in Ahsoka on the second hit of his basic, so she’s getting more chances to attack. KAM hits twice on his basic, but it’s not treated as a special.

    GAS is also needed for two specific missions in LS TB. That’s going to be harder now that he can’t ignore defense.

    For me, I’ve noticed my GAS does around 24-30k on a crit now, which is about half (he’s R8). Over time, the armor shred lets him get back up to what he was before, but that’s a slow build.
     
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  11. Laze

    Laze Active Member

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    The silver lining is that his event is easier now. People in my guild were beating it first try without changing mods. They were claiming there was no way that would have worked before.

    The changes are noticeable though. My SLKR team can now beat Kenobi teams without CAT much easier. And people in my arena shard were testing GAS with DR and CLS. CLS apparently beats him, even on defense. And DR beats him more easily on offense with no Wat (although I think a strong SET is needed since his high defense is actually useful now).
     
  12. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Ughhhh...based on Laze's accounts, is there any justification that GAS is still a "good" Jedi unit?

    Boa, couldn't you put C3PO on a JMK team? I saw a video where Gridan was going down into the weeds explaining his preference for a JMK team that contains C3PO instead of GAS.
     
  13. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    GAS is apparently still good in a 501st team, but his viability outside of that has taken a big hit. He used to be used on any Jedi team and would be amazing in it. Now, he’s still better than a lot of Jedi, but he’s not what he was before.

    Yes, C-3PO is sometimes used in a JMK team. The idea is to get translate on JMK and then reduce his cool downs. I’ll sometimes see people use C-3PO when they don’t have CAT, but all of the ones with CAT in my arena are still using GAS so far. That could be a situation where no one is really looking to upset the status quo.

    You can use KAM in place of GAS, which is possible better on offense but it wasn’t as good on defense pre-nerf because the AI would switch forms. Not that KAM is an option for most people.

    GMY could be interesting for his foresight. That is one of JMK’s weaknesses. The AI will waste attacks on units who have foresight.

    I wouldn’t skip GAS, though, if you’re gearing up the 501st anyway. In non-TB cases, I would still take GAS over Shaak Ti as a leader. Not to mention Shaak Ti can also be used with other Jedi teams.
     
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  14. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    This might be borderline heretical...but is there any reason I need to rush to SLKR's 6th zeta, Press the Advantage right away? It looks somewhat underwhelming. And thanks to SLKR tix grinding, I have my Shaak Clones squad at a range of G12 or G10.5 (Fives was already R7). I know that in order to make them usable I need at minimum the sacrifice zeta. Any reason why I couldn't skip PTA to go apply the Sacrifice zeta first and then come back to it?
     
  15. Laze

    Laze Active Member

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    If you’re going to skip one, I’d probably do the basic. Being immune to stagger and marked is nice. I’m not sure if it opens up any counters - It might make it easier for DR since BSF has stagger, and I would imagine it would make JKR/JKL work better.

    The basic just deals extra damage and gives him advantage if the target is stunned. Nice to have, but probably not something that would swing fights, unless you’re trying to scrape by beating a JML or JMK team, where every little bit helps.
     
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  16. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, I would probably skip the basic, too. I find I don’t use it too often. Honestly, I forget about it more often than not. You can’t stun GLs or raid bosses, so you’ll never get the extra hit on them. Most of the time on everyone else you don’t need an extra hit.

    The only time I’ve found it to be particularly useful is if you’re trying to rapidly charge your ultimate. SLKR gets 5% charge on a critical hit, so that’s 15% charge (SLKR’s crit chance is over 100%). But you’ll normally prioritize the special first over the basic, so it just doesn’t come into play that often.

    Now that I think about it, I think the Rancor does get stunned when you bring the door down on it. I’m usually using my specials during that period. He might get the extra hit in that case.

    But still, if you’re going to skip one, that’s the least useful. You don’t want SLKR to get marked or JKR might actually be able to beat him. Stagger can also be incredibly annoying. That could possibly let Troopers beat him.
     
  17. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Laze and Boa, unfortunately I already did the basic. Ah well. Sounds like I really need PTA then. I'll just stay on task and finish SLKR then.
     

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