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Themistocles' General Squad Advice Thread

Discussion in 'Squad Help' started by Themistocles, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. Laze

    Laze Active Member

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    Well, I do it several times a day against SEE in arena. I even use a G12 Thrawn and GBA. There are no Rey’s in my arena, so I can’t test that. But I remember one of the videos mentioning that G11 Wat works. It doesn’t work for Kylo because you need to use Tank tech first, but you start with Weapon tech on Vader against the other two and at that point he’s done his job.
     
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  2. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Ooooh can you send me the instructional video(s) you used por favor?
     
  3. Laze

    Laze Active Member

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    Check out this site. Has a searchable database of counters videos, including the aforementioned SEE/Rey counters. He shows mods and talks through strategy as well:

    https://swgoh4.life/
     
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  4. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Is this what you use all the time to climb?

     
  5. Laze

    Laze Active Member

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    Not exactly that but I used it for inspiration. The main squad I use for the counter is:

    R7 Vader
    G12 Thrawn
    G11 Wat
    R5 Malak
    G12 GBA

    I don’t have Traya developed at all, so I sub in Malak. He has a dispel, which isn’t as good as isolate, but still useful against double tank lineups. Many SEE comps I see use Vader, so he can also fear him when he does his initial AOE and then tank some hits since he’ll taunt at that point. And for the pretaunt, I started out using an R5 KRU but have since switched to using a G12 GBA. The mass dispel of retribution is nice, and my brute usually dies to counters early on, which gets rid of link. These two slots are somewhat flexible I think, I know someone else in the shard that uses Piett in the Traya slot to boost Vader’s offense and potency.

    The biggest key that I’ve found is getting Vader’s mods right. With my lower gear levels, I need him to be efficient. At first I didn’t have him with enough offense, so sometimes he would come up short culling someone, but where I have him at now I can take out most comps I see with a very high win rate.
     
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  6. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Since you've modified it somewhat, can you go over your ideal turn order sequence?
     
  7. Laze

    Laze Active Member

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    I haven’t really tuned turn orders or speeds the way I had to for the SLKR counters I use. Wat always gives weapon tech to Vader to start. Then SEE will link Brute and Thrawn. Who goes next depends on whether the enemy has Malak or not. If they don’t have Malak, Vader will always go next because he will gain 30% TM from SEE using link. Vader runs MM, I usually cull Nihilus first if he’s there, then I get a second cull at the end and usually eliminate Sion as well because his taunt is persistent. At that point I focus Vader if he’s there - it is imperative you do not let him take a second turn or he will wreck you. Then eliminate SEE, then clean up Traya.

    If the enemy does have Malak, then it gets messier because he prevents Vader from gaining TM. In that case, usually the enemy goes first because SEE gives all sith +40 speed from his leadership so you can’t really outspeed them. If they have DR as well, then it really gets messy because he’ll fear your pretaunt and leader. I’ve played around with Thrawn lead in that case, but usually just avoid those comps if I see them. You weather their turns, then get rid of Malak first during Vader’s first turn.

    Since the teams are so varied, it’s hard to cover everything. I’ve definitely learned several nuances of sith kits playing around with this. The most common team I see is the sith triumvirate + either Vader or SET, and those are no trouble. You can also use Wat for subtle advantages. For example, he will place extra dots and remove TM on the enemy target when a character with a tech uses a special ability, so you can use that to your advantage. I can record a video later and throw it up here so you can see an example.
     
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  8. Laze

    Laze Active Member

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    Ok here’s an example from earlier today.

     
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  9. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I will pocket this for later! Turns out he didn't put SEE down on defense but his DR instead. In response I used the Piett/Wat/Vader team against his DR for probably my smoothest ever kill of a DR without using my own DR in a mirror match. It was my first time using this DR counter and I was stoked it worked so well!
     
  10. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    A couple of topics:

    1) My guild can clear CPit, and I hit rank 15. I got 5 of the thingies. Since Im still a growing account, with a need to relic many more characters in the future, I feel like I need to be especially selective of who I deem worthy of R8. For sure SLKR when I get him. GK for Neg fleet - yes for sure, but IMO I don't think I should right now while I'm gearing up for SLKR. I could probably be using those gear pieces somewhere else I would think...or maybe you vets who R8 all the time will tell me that the 225 G12+ pieces builds up faster than I think?

    What about SEE? The only reason I can think of is this...in one battle, my R7 SEE + Wat counter actually failed and timed out against an R8 JML/Bastila/Wat comp. R7 JMLs no problem. This was only one data point, and I probably need to retest. Is S8 SEE worth it?

    EDIT: I was just advised elsewhere that SEE can beat the R8 version of the JML timeout team with Wat/Han/Vader, which I will try next time. So perhaps not R8 SEE.

    2) Zeta order for GG/Nute squad. I still have 2 more zetas to go before I can sniff this but I'm thinking of the following in terms of greatest impact on down:

    a. GG - MM unique
    b. B1
    c. B2
    d. GG - lead
    e. Nute
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  11. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    I have 7 R8 characters so far. Of those, you have three that you could do: SEE, GK, and JKA.

    For SEE, the R8 makes him marginally better. He gets more health, which makes him able to take more hits and he gets more damage. And he gets an extra 10% health and protection from his Galactic Legend unique for each relic level. How much does that matter? I guess less RNG with soloing, especially if you want to take SEE and Wat against a Rey team by themselves. R8 does help against a Bastila-led team, if you don’t want to use Han. It’s not easy, but it can be done if you have to. But for the most part, you’re probably not going to notice a significant difference in most cases.

    For GK, he’s probably the most common non-GL R8. Obviously, it makes his ship more effective with the extra speed, which makes fleet arena easier. On a Padme team, GK can tank more hits. This is most evident in LS Geo TB. For me, GK made my Padme team a lot more effective.

    For JKA, it’s pretty much entirely for his ship. Yes, he’ll do extra damage on a Padme team, but the bulk of the damage comes from courage, so that’s not really a big difference. JKA at R8 is as fast as the Negotiator, so it gives you an extra edge. I had the materials and decided to go for it. I probably wouldn’t recommend it unless you really don’t have anything else to do.

    For now, I would say GK is worth considering. The other two probably not. The only other one that might be worth thinking about is Vader. I’ve heard the damage increase does make him even more powerful than he already is. I don’t have him at R8, so I cannot say. If you heavily use him for GL counters, it might be something that would be helpful. But, as you said, it’s awfully expensive to R8 someone so you want to be selective.

    The zeta order looks good
     
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  12. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Mod slicing question time!

    I have finally gotten to the point in mod slicing where all of the main characters and main teams that I care about are in a reasonable state of 5-A mods.

    At first I originally thought: "Oh yes! I can finally go down to my greens and blue speed set mods with +5 speed on them, and try to level them all the way up to gold and toss out whatever doesn't proc!" By doing this I feel like I should end up with a nice pool of speed mods at around +15, 5-A Gold.

    But then I thought...I do know I have some darn good 5-A speed mods on a variety of characters - good characters on good teams - like Piett, Starck, Gideon, Thrawn etc etc...I could 6-dot those and try to get 6-dot slices on those. But then when the time comes to strip em off for SLKR/Hux/FOO, I'll have to replace those mods and those teams will have been weakened.

    What are folks' thoughts on this? Should I expand my base set of unused speed mods, see what +15s I get and then go from there? Or 6-dot mods on existing characters which I know are great already?
     
  13. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    For me, I’m usually looking at whether I’m just taking a mod to Mk 6 or if I’m going to try and slice it higher. If you’re just taking a mod to Mk 6 and leaving it, then I’m usually doing it for one of two reasons:

    First, for ships. That gets the same benefit for Mk 6 A or E, so the minimum is all you really need. Something like Han or Chewie, as an example. I’m not really looking to put god tier mods on them, so Mk 6 is enough to boost the Falcon.

    The second reason is usually for increasing the primaries. As an example, a health primary gets a big boost from Mk 5 to Mk 6, so there’s a lot of incentive to do that for characters that you want more health on.

    In either case, I’m taking the speed secondary into account. The higher, the better. I prefer around +20 or so. Ideally, though, I’d like to slice them after Mk 6 to get the max rolls on speed, if I can. I’d consider +15 if it had another good secondary it rolled on. Basically, something like the diamond mod on your SEE. You’ve got speed, offense percent, and raw offense. Those are three great secondaries. Even the health percent is one of the best 4th ones you can get. I probably would have taken it to Mk 6 A, just like you did.

    So for mods you’re looking to slice after Mk 6, then I’d say most mods that have you have a high speed secondary that can still roll are worth looking at. You can also take a bit of a gamble on mods that have another good secondary that already rolled. As an example, the cross mod on your B1. It’s almost at max on the offense percent. Potency primary on a potency mod set are complementary.

    But I periodically go through and level my mods to whatever minimum level they need to show all the secondaries and then any ones with speed go to 12. The ones that don't roll enough speed, I sell (unless there's some other reason they might be useful). I would do that before slicing mods to Mk 6. You can find some real gems, if you're lucky.
     
  14. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Ok so in terms of how to direct my mod priorities for the next little bit, it would be to "broaden" my pool of decent 5-A speed set mods until I'm out of those, and then 6-dot and 6-dot-slice the best of those?
     
  15. Laze

    Laze Active Member

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    I would prioritize upgrading the good mods you're already using on good characters. But only if they meet whatever standards you're setting for 6E slicing. Electricboa had some good suggestions - target primaries that get a nice bump, or mods with really good secondary speed you want to slice even higher. Secondary synergy is also a plus - I sliced some Vader mods up higher without the top end speed just because they had several good secondaries, so even when they didn't hit speed I wasn't totally disappointed. I'm pretty happy with where he's at now as a result. Overall, I took this approach to focus on cultivating some really high-end mods when 6A slicing became a thing and it has paid off big time. I sacrificed mod depth for a time, but I wouldn't have nearly had the success that I've had in arena without really good top-level mods available for key characters (and it helps a lot in other game modes like galactic challenges, GAC, and conquest).

    Eventually, you run out of mods that are worthy of 6A slicing and then you go back to farming for depth. Also, check your quality thresholds. For example, slicing a blue with only +5 is probably not very good ROI (I'm even pickier and don't slice greens unless they hit speed twice unless it is an uncommon shape/primary, like a crit damage triangle).
     
  16. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you have any MK 5 mods you want to slice? If not, I would say go through your mods and level them like I said and see where you stand. If you get some you want to try and slice up to Mk 5 A, then I would do that.

    But I wouldn’t try to farm new mods. I would just take what you have and work with that. Once you start trying to farm new ones, it’s an endless chase. I end up getting mods from events or the store and every couple weeks or so go through and level them to see what I have. Sometimes, I max out on mods and am forced to do it.

    As far as your standards for which mods to keep, that’s probably going to depend on you. As an example, Laze is a lot pickier than I am on the blue and green mods. I might slice those and see if I got lucky. Even if they’re not great, I might have use for a +8 secondary. That gets into roster depth. He doesn’t have as many characters geared high, where I have a bunch that are G11 or G12 that I can just put a bunch of okay mods on and leave. Or even someone at G13 like ROLO. I don’t use her for anything, so she can use a bunch of +8 to +10 speed mods.
     
  17. Laze

    Laze Active Member

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    I haven't run the detailed numbers, but when it comes to slicing my intuition tells me it's more effective to focus on new mods vs. chasing mediocre mods with slicing. Here's a thought exercise, taking blue +5 speed mods as an example. I'm sure others have done this better, but just to illustrate the point:

    Assumptions (based on whatever published data I could find):
    - spending 3x50 daily on mod refreshes
    - 20% of new mods are trash (not 5*)
    - speed arrows will appear on 1.5% of new mods
    - speed secondaries will appear on 10% of new mods
    - speed secondaries have an equal chance of starting/increasing by 4 or 5 (simplification)
    - speed secondaries have a 25% chance of increasing when sliced

    Option 1: You can slice 12 blue mods per week. 25% would hit speed.
    Result:
    - 9 purple mods at +5
    - 3 purple mods at +8-11

    Option 2: If instead, you focused on new mod farms, and only sliced a mod when it hit speed every time, with the same energy you could:
    - farm 150 new mods
    - keep any speed primary triangles
    - slice the 12 of them with secondary speed to green
    - slice the 3 of those with two speed hits to blue
    Result:
    - 1-2 speed arrows
    - 9 green mods at +4-5
    - 2-3 blue mods at +8-10
    - 0-1 blue mods at +12-15

    This is somewhat simplified. In reality secondaries can also increase by 3, which dilutes option 2 a little. On the other hand, new mods aren't all gray - they can be green, blue, purple, or gold, which favors option 2. So hopefully these balance out more or less. I didn't want to run the numbers including all that because it would get really complicated. But unless this is way off Option 2 seems so much better that I'd say that slicing blue +5s is not a good choice no matter what your roster looks like. Not only do you end up with better average mods, but you also keep open the chance of hitting a god-like mod.
     
  18. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    My only real issue with that are the credits. In the aggregate, you’ll probably get more mods to work with and that’s good, but the cost to level them up becomes a real issue. At least for me, and I don’t really have to worry about leveling characters to 85 much anymore. There are people that have tens of millions of credits saved, but I normally operate with 5-10 million.

    The lower the mod grade is, the more expensive it is to see if it has a speed secondary. You have to level gray mods to 12 just to see. It’s 86.2k to level a mod from 1 to 12. Higher mods cost less, but if you’re farming 150 mods that’s millions of credits no matter what. 150 gray mods would be 12.9 million, though obviously you’d get other grades in there, which would bring the cost down. And when you sell them, you would recoup some of the credits. But it’s a drain over time and a lot of work.

    That being said, when I just buy them from the store, that’s awfully expensive, too:

    A mods – 3.91 million credits or 1.91 million ship credits

    B mods – 3.48 million credits or I’m not sure what the ship credit cost is​

    I don’t really buy anything less than B, but I can be picky about the primaries and other secondaries when I do it. I’m less likely to buy any mod with +3 speed. The rest of my mods I get from events. Those are mostly blue or green, so it all balances out. I have a smaller pool of mods to level and see if they have speed, but I get guaranteed B and A mods with speed.

    Now, that’s also with the caveat that I don’t really need any mods. What I mean is I’ve got a good amount already, so it’s not like I’m in any rush to fill out my coffers with mods to give my characters something. I’m chasing really high-end mods, so it’s also a question of quality over quantity. Farming 150 mods will net you more mods at the end

    The other thing to consider is your mod inventory cap. Yes, there is one. I think it’s about 500, and it’s incredibly frustrating when you reach it. It puts the excess mods in your inbox and they just sit there until you make room. I’m at 445 right now, and that’s mods that aren’t on anyone. Mods on characters don’t count towards the cap. I’ve probably got around 1,000 mods on characters
     
  19. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    First of all disclaimer: Yes yes it's Ahnald.

    Buuuuuuuuut he did suggest that putting a SEE/Wat duo (nothing else) on Squad Arena defense is a tougher test than a traditional SEE/Full Sith team, even with Triumvirate. He showed some comments from his arena shard where folks admitted to difficulty beating his duo.

    Summary of the video: Because Wat's AI prioritizes the tank/protection tech on SEE instead of say, weapons tech, SEE is fairly adequately protected against Rey's whirlwind or ultimate, or a traditional JML's team range of attacks. Against a mirror SEE, Wat will get killed quickly (especially my 5 star Wat) leaving no targets for the human SEE operator to target. He showed some pure AI handoff battles where...indeed, SEE/Wat seemed to know what to do in battle.

    Caveats: Of course SLKR will rip this apart to shreds still, no question. And most veteran folks probably have SLKR by now. A Rey with JTR can slap the healing immunity on SEE, giving it some risk against a human operator. I can see this protecting me only against 1x GL owners and I would imagine most of them like me are working on their 2nd.

    ...I'm tempted to leave this on defense overnight but am a little nervous to wake up and find myself in the hinterlands.

    EDIT: A couple of my shard friends agree that SLKR would just slap this around and it would only delay people who are 1x GL wonders. And that it would really just put a bullseye on my head. One idea is to use this when I start getting punted into the 40s as that's where the 1x GL folks tend to hang out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2021
  20. Laze

    Laze Active Member

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    If I saw this on D, I would just bring Han with my team and stun Wat, but I'm in the 0xGL camp for now and rely on the Vader counter. Is there something I'm missing why this wouldn't make this an easy win?
     

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