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Sith Eternal Emperor

Discussion in 'Characters, Skills and Equipments' started by Electricboa, Oct 6, 2020.

  1. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    So when I look this up in Google/Reddit I'm not getting much - but is there any phase of HSTR that SEE is decent at? I fully understand that his raid damage is very limited and I can see why since he needs to be able to link stuff and spread Deceived. But can he do any appreciable % on any phase?

    Ofc most of you heavy hitters are probably solo-ing HSTR with SLKR on a routine basis so you might not have first hand knowledge...
     
  2. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    @Electricboa - your SEE speed will be roughly the same as mine when I throw my mods on him. How does it feel to you when you go up against faster JMLs? Do you use Traya? I was talking SEE vs JML battles with someone on reddit and he pointed out with regards to speed:

    upload_2021-1-27_11-28-31.png
     
  3. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    SEE is pretty bad for the CRancor, but I’ve never tried him in any other raid. I guess the Sith Raid would be the best one, since there are multiple targets you should be able to link. Then again, would you really want to go into his ultimate? He loses the ability to recover protection.

    I’ve used Traya from pretty much the beginning, so a faster JML doesn’t matter to me. Not to mention JML is 11 speed faster than SEE, so all things being equal JML is more likely to be faster. That Reddit post says his SEE is 537 speed. A lot of JMLs would out speed him. My JML is 565. That being said, when SEE was my primary arena team, he was faster than pretty much all other JMLs, so I never had an issue if the other JML was faster. I can’t ever recall getting blocked

    SEE has 108% tenacity before mods. JML has 62% potency. It’s possibly to get ability blocked, but it shouldn’t be that common. I know people like to throw in a little potency to JML, but I can’t see anyone really modding him to beat 108% tenacity. That would be an odd choice.

    Right now, my SEE is down to 450 speed because I moved my speed mods off him and have him with offense. He’s no longer my primary arena team. But I do like to use Traya with him, mainly so the other Sith won’t stay debuffed. When I was using SEE as my primary team, it was:

    SEE (L), Traya, Nihilus, Bastila, and Darth Revan​

    That was more to annoy Rey teams, since JMLs were so easy to beat. Revan and Bastila for Fear and general debuffs. Nihilus to increase cool downs and annihilate, and Traya to isolate and cleanse the Sith.

    When I first got SEE, I did some testing. With the caveat he was very fast at the time, I tried using pretty trash Sith against top tier JML teams and won. I think the worst team I used was:

    SEE (L), Maul, Sidious, Savage, and OG Sith Trooper​

    Maul and Sidious were obviously at G13, but the other two were G12. I tried replacing Sith Trooper with Sith Assassin at G11 and lost. All SEE really needed was fodder to last long enough for his mastery to start stacking. I guess if you got really unlucky and did get ability blocked, it might be a problem to lose a turn or two, but you’re not going to be using a Maul team as support. Vader, DR, Bastila, and Malak should let you win any battle against JML in arena.

    GAC might be a little harder, since you won’t want to break up those teams for SEE, but most JML users won’t use their arena teams for the same reason. And it would break up more teams for JML.

    All that being said, I would seriously consider gearing up the Sith Triumvirate. Those three characters practically give you a whole new team because of how good their synergy is. You could use them in so many ways. The vanilla approach would be them plus two other Sith, like Sidious or Maul and they can take out a lot of teams. I often use Traya, Sion, and three random Sith as one team against Geos or Mothma. The constant assists are a death sentence with Traya’s leadership. And if you do have a G13 Sion, he’s very difficult to take out. I’ve heard that Traya and Sion can beat full G13 Geos teams, though I’ve never gotten that risky. I put Nihilus with Palpatine and usually use that to counter whatever team is using Nest. In that situation, you could use SEE to solo someone. But if you need the extra firepower, you can put the Trio under SEE and it’s a very good team for GAC. SEE prevents Sion’s revive, but he’s still tanky and will delay things long enough for SEE to get pumped up.
     
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  4. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    I had thought we had talked about Sith Trio previously and you said it was too early to be concerned about them as a post-SEE project? :) If you think it wise, I could add it to the list of things to do before I go after SLKR. I think you had said previously Nihilus at G12 was fine whereas Traya and Sion should be relic'd?
     
  5. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Eh, it can go either way, depending on you. I thought you were going to take a break before Kylo and gear up some other characters, weren’t you? Even without SEE, the Sith Trio are pretty good.

    It’s really going to come down to how you want to use them. You don’t really need Sion at all for SEE. He would be more for non-SEE GAC use. With Nihilus, he’s just as viable at G12 as G13, though I will say there is a psychological component to it. If other people see a G12 character on your team, they might be more inclined to attack you. Full G13 is a little mor scary, even though it’s basically the same for Nihilus.

    If you wanted a budget option, you could just do Traya for SEE. You get the passive cleansing, so you don’t have to worry about debuffs. She’s probably the most useful of the three, though Nihilus can pull a lot of weight with cool down increases and annihilates. Traya also can be used with Vader, Wat, Thrawn, and Bastila Fallen to counter Rey teams. That’s actually the team that people with high tenacity Malaks are trying to prevent, though by switching between Thrawn and Vader lead, you can usually get around it.

    I’m not sure there’s really a perfect answer to what you should do in which order. Kylo is an amazing character and once you have him. you’re going to open up a lot of doors. On the other hand, you’re pretty invested in Sith and the Trio is like a Swiss Army knife. They can do a lot in various situations. Maybe watch some videos showing off what they can do? You don't need the Sith Trio to beat JML teams and you probably don't need them to beat Rey teams, either.
     
  6. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    SEE can solo Padme teams, like it's not even close. Full relic 7 Padme teams get absolutely wrecked in no time flat. Just link JKA and another jedi like Ahsoka and it completely wrecks their damage output. All the extra out of turn attacks feed your ultimate super quick and one ultimate nukes the entire team.
     
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  7. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Can I get away with G12 Traya on a SEE squad lineup or does that get wrecked? I could do the budget Sith Trio G12 option. And I've always wanted to do them.
     
  8. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    The main benefit of having traya there is her unique that allows sith to self cleanse at the start of each of their turns. That only lasts as long as she's alive. So the better her gear, the longer she's gonna stick around. This is a big concern when you're going up against any team with JKR since he is hard coded to use Direct Focus on her first. Mine is r5 and it's hit or miss on how long she stays alive vs the typical JML team with JKL, JML, JKR, GAS, Wat/Hoda. This is because my team has two tanks on it, so there is a chance that one of the AI characters targets another tank instead of the direct focus target. This happens quite a lot actually. But at lower gear, you likely will find that she doesn't stick around for long. That's not 'all' bad though because when a sith dies on a SEE team, all other sith cleanse and heal to full hp/prot. So that makes it not terrible to lose someone. The worst case scenario you lose her right before JML does his aoe ability block. You'll still be able to activate the ultimate through ability block, but you can't use Power! Unlimited Power! until ability block falls off which can be rough sometimes since JML ability blocks for 2 turns and his other special increases cooldowns, so you can end up in a situation where you have activated your ultimate but can't use your big ability for 2-4 turns or longer if you're really unlucky.
     
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  9. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    K G13 Traya it sounds like, G12 Nihilus, and to save on gear, it sounds like I can get away with G11 Sion since I'll never use him with SEE? Although the first time I fall to a relic Geo squad with this group, I'm probably going to yank Sion up out of anger.
     
  10. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    haha, yeah I will say that even relic 3 on Sion will make the geo matchup super easy. My Nihilus is still G12 if that means anything to ya. I have Traya and Sion at r5 though. If there was a reason to use Sion on the SEE team, I probably would have put him at r7, but like has been said, he's not good on a SEE team. I pushed SET up to r7 fill his role and he does extremely well. Almost never lose him. Usually end up with SEE, Malak, and SET alive at the end of the fight.
     
  11. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Uh oh, I do have SET close to 7 star now through small farming efforts daily. Is he more of a priority than Traya to match with SEE?
     
  12. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    I never used OG Sith Trooper with my SEE team, though I did take mine to R4. I never saw too much of a point, since any team with JKR can just get around him and Rey can instantly defeat him. I would say Sion over Sith Trooper because you get more use out of Sion outside of a SEE team. Yes, SEE prevents Sion’s revive, but he’s still a tank with a persistent taunt.

    But you don’t need a tank for your SEE team at all, if you don’t want it. No one using SEE in my arena uses either Sion or Sith Trooper. They basically use what I was using before I switched over to JML:

    SEE (L), Traya, Nihilus, DR, and Bastila
     
  13. Marc Tessier

    Marc Tessier Well-Known Member

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    @Themistocles

    FWIW: I took Sion up to R4 to solidify my Sith Trio counter to Geos. Once he was relic'd, even Geo squads with a R5 GBA or above and a relic Spy go down rather handily. I eventually got Traya up to R2. My Nihilus is at G12 +5 (just needs the finisher).
     
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  14. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    OG Sith Trooper also has the persistent taunt. And it's more effective in my mind because of all the cleansing you typically see in a JML team. Sion only taunts if you get Pain to land and stick around. OG Sith Trooper taunts when any sith ally uses a special or falls below 50% health, which is always happening. Mine has 176% defense with his unique combined with 150k hp+prot. Of course Rey is gonna still whirlwind him to death, but I will say that he soaks up a TON of damage against JML while on offense because the AI doesn't know how to focus on a single target if there are multiple taunt effects in use at the same time. Sion 'can' have that effect, but I've found it much less reliable. My Sion has about the same hp+prot, but 15% less defense against units inflicted with Pain and 115% less defense against everyone else. I don't consider my team for it's defensive effectiveness based entirely on the fact that SLKR can literally solo any SEE team. So I evaluate my team make-up entirely on it's offensive capability, in which case I find OG Sith Trooper much more effective vs Sion
     
  15. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    That is true. With Traya’s cleanse, it would keep on any buff immunity. Though Sion does give you a dispel.

    I tend to focus more on defensive capability because while people can switch to Kylo and easily win, the vast majority don’t. They’ll just go around to keep their JML team in, unless they absolutely have to go through you. Like they’re on 9, you’re on 5, and they’re going to 1. Then, it’s worth switching. Outside of that, people are lazy.

    On offense, does OG Sith Trooper really matter? I mean the AI doesn’t know how to deal with him, but SEE can win pretty easily without a tank at all. So OG Sith Trooper is mostly about how many other Sith you have standing at the end, right? It’s not like he’s been needed to win, has he?

    And for GAC, it probably won’t matter as much right now, since this is his first GL. He’s going to get paired with people around the same GP and no one in their right mind would do JML as their first. So in practice, he’s probably going to use SEE against Rey or just solo. In which case, Sion could do more work under Traya.

    I still like OG Sith Trooper and would recommend him in time, but for general utility I’d pick Sion over him first.
     
  16. Skywlkr76

    Skywlkr76 Well-Known Member

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    That comment almost offends me.
     
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  17. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Embrace the insanity.

    Though I do have to say your account progression is pretty unusual. Getting JKR, but not following through with DR and Malak. Going the Separatist/Padme route, but having a R7 JKL before a R7 GAS. It doesn’t follow the more progression-based development most people do.

    I do also know someone else who did JML as their first GL. She was part of my guild way back when I ran one. Her choices on who to gear and how far wasn’t really based on anything other than her whim. She had a maxed clone team before they ever got their rewords or GAS/Shaak Ti came out. Pure, unadulterated chance that she fell into a meta. That R7 Cody isn’t doing too much, still. Needless to say, it was quite a headache for me and the guild leadership when we were trying to nudge people towards teams that would help them and the guild as a whole and clone were completely useless at the time.

    But in the aggregate, the odds of running into someone that is doing or did JML first is incredibly low. The most likely to do it would be veteran players who skipped out on Kylo and Rey. They are more likely to have a lot of the requirements already geared somewhat and would probably have the gear saved up. But those are few in numbers and limited. Any newer players would be facing a pretty steep uphill climb if they were doing it from scratch. You figure JML requires more characters than any of the other GLs by far when you count the secondary requirements.

    I’m sure there are some people out there who would do it. But for the vast majority, it’s going to be one of the other three. And if we’re talking GAC matchmaking, I’d put the odds of encountering anyone at that GP with JML almost nil. I mean you’re sitting at 4.1 million GP. The other person I was talking about is 4.9 million. Themistocles is just over 3 million and is almost done. I think I did the math way back and estimated that Kylo or Rey with all their requirements would add about 600k GP each. SEE would probably be around that. JML would be much higher because of all the nesting requirements. Characters like ROLO, CHOLO, and Wampa are G13 requirements for JKL that JML doesn’t need, so they’re just pure extra GP.

    That’s actually the main downside of doing SEE first. For arena, it will be good because he can climb and get crystals. But GAC will likely be Rey or Kylo players. Maybe SEE, but I’m kind of assuming most people are going to do research before they pick a GL and will be steered towards one of the other two. The conditions that make SEE better for Themistocles are pretty narrow and uncommon. But once he gets Kylo, then things balance up again.
     
  18. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Hey @Dagor and @Electricboa ...so tomorrow's looking like the day when I do a major push of refreshes, unlock SEE, and jack that guy up to R7.

    Sans Ultimate, do you remember what class of team you were able to take out? I.e. can I still wipe out GAS and Padmes without the ult? I would imagine yes for GAS because I can remove his protection and just make him sit, and just keep basic-ing the other team into a pulp.
     
  19. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    I could beat JML teams. The ultimate is where SEE really starts doing work, so I was reliant more on my other Sith to do damage without it. But with Vader, Bastila, DR, and Malak, you should be able to win without too much trouble. Alway link the enemy GAS.

    I’m pretty sure you don’t need the ultimate for Padme, though you don’t want to keep linking people. Counterattacking is bad against Padme, But you want to prevent JKA from being able to crit you. If you can also get Ahsoka, too, you’ve nerfed the two main attackers on that team. You can take on GAS without the ultimate. I remember doing it myself pre-ultimate.

    Obviously, the ultimate will make everything easier, but you can do most of it without. I think Rey teams were the hardest for me without the ultimate. Kylo wasn't an option at the time, but with the Armorer, you could probably use a similar strategy for Rey teams. You just don't need Han for it.

    And remember when you have 9 ultimate mats, you can max out the tickets and the excess will be carried over to the next time you do a DS GL.
     
  20. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Oh so I've been meaning to ask you about the ticket fluffing thing. When does the spigot turn off on the tickets? After I have won my last ultimate piece OR is it when I apply it?

    If the former, I imagine I max that sucker to 144 then I do my last battle to get the ultimate piece, now I'm down to 74 I get to carry over to SLKR?
     

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