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Sith Eternal Emperor

Discussion in 'Characters, Skills and Equipments' started by Electricboa, Oct 6, 2020.

  1. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    Ok, stage 4 and 5 were laughably easy compared to the 1st stage (and stages 4-6 of the Kylo and Rey events). I don't know that you could actually lose those stages. You take your SEE and pick two other sith/empire from a list of Vader, Maul, EP, Marauder, Dooku, Darth Sidious or Royal Guard (though it says it's optional to take anyone). Then you face GL Rey and Ben Solo essentially mirroring the scene in ROS. However, they give you the ultimate to use, so basically you get to mark/link them both as the first move, then Rey goes and gives protection to Ben, then your other sith go (in my case I took DV and EP), then your ultimate gets charged, you hit it. Then they take a turn and it gets back to you and SEE gets to actually use the ultimate ability and it instantly kills Ben and puts Rey at like 100 hp, which gets taken off when your next dude takes a turn. You would have to actually try pretty hard to fail at this one. Apparently stage 6 is the same and it's the same difficulty for JML as well for the last 3 stages.
     
  2. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    I finished all the requirements for SEE and the way I had Sidious modded already was reasonably successful for the first tier. The RNG misses cost me a couple battles, but I’m winning a lot more than I lose:

    https://swgoh.gg/p/613136164/characters/darth-sidious

    It’s a mix of health and potency with enough critical chance to get the bonus DoTs pretty much all the time. Agen Kolar needs to be the first you take out. He can heal the team, so that’s bad. But you also need to go after the weakest targets. So if one of the other two have more DoTs and expose, then it might be better to try and take them out first. The idea being you feed Sidious as they die, which lets you do more attacks.
     
  3. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that's the route I went for the most part. Take out the healer and try to kill the others when you have a chance. Just had a lot of poor rng with dodges and the like.
     
  4. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    In other news, SEE can very nearly solo the JML "time out" team that's been going around. The key being taking out JKL and Wat first (or Jolee if they use him instead of Wat). It's just a matter of biding your time while SEE eats all the Jedi's protection and then destroying.
     
  5. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    I haven’t seen a solo, but I did see this:



    Basically, the key is to leave JML and one other character alive. As long as you can keep JML linked, he’ll lose his protection eventually. The mistake is to leave JML alone—he can’t be linked.

    But no one in my arena actually uses that time-out team. It would just hurt everyone else in the chat. Besides, I thought there was some non-GL counter for it that I can’t remember. Mostly, I’m seeing JKR-led JML teams, which is a pain to deal with when I just have Kylo. The good news is a couple more days and I should have SEE unlocked. I’m really hoping he can win against that team without the ultimate.

    And the uploader for that video has a few other SEE ones. Probably the best content for SEE I've found as far as actually gameplay goes. Here's SEE vs Kylo with double tanks:

     
  6. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    The team that I've seen in our shard is JML (L), JKR, GAS, Wat/Hoda/Jolee, JKL. I generally start off linking JML and usually JKL or Jolee. This allows me to take out JKL or Jolee really early with SEE's mass assist so they can't be revived, JKL is the most troublesome damage dealer with his dispel and mass stun. After their protection is gone, I'll do the other jedi first, generally GAS and JKR. Without protection, they tend to die pretty quickly. Once you've popped savior, you can take out JML fairly easily once you get rid of any healer (Hoda or Wat primarily). I've been down to just SEE with 4 guys alive many times and had SEE solo the rest of the team fairly easily.
     
  7. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Ah, I see what you mean. I was thinking about using just SEE going in and couldn't see how that would work. At the end of a regular battle, after SEE has drained all that protection, he can solo the other team.

    Have you tried leaving SEE on defense yet?
     
  8. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    For part of the day at least. The person that has payout directly in front of me (and the person ahead of them) both run that JML team, so I find it easiest just to use that SEE team to beat it. And I generally will switch back to Rey with JKL eventually just to keep from getting knocked too far back. The problem is even with the ultimate (which I don't have yet), SEE teams can currently be solo'd (from the start) by just SLKR. I've seen videos where he doesn't even need to use his ultimate and easily takes apart the SEE team because you have to use mostly tanks to defend against Rey teams and to soak the damage from JML teams, so you really don't have much in the way of massive damage to pass around. And since the AI can't apply link when there is just a single opponent, and there's only a single opponent for deceived so SEE's ultimate actually never even gets close to charging. So I don't see Palp holding on defense at all if there are SLKR's around. He's pretty much offense only.
     
  9. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay, first impressions with SEE. Rey seems to be an issue, mainly because of the timer. I can win without too much trouble, but winning within the 5 min allotted might be tricky. The ultimate will solve that. That being said, I might just keep using Kylo against Rey. I already know how to do it in my sleep. I will probably do that for now and revisit SEE when he has the ultimate.

    Now for the good stuff: JML. SEE melts him like butter. After the white-knuckle battles using Kylo, I’m completely sold. I did lose two characters, but that was my first time doing it and I was playing around. Not to mention I didn’t re-mod anyone. I use DR, Malak, Traya, and Bastila with whatever mods they already had. My SEE has 537 speed (I could make him faster if I put all my best speed mods on him) with 13,673 special offense (more than my Kylo’s physical offense)

    As far as leaving SEE on defense, I’m not sure. Definitely not until the ultimate. But if more and more people start unlocking JML, it might be worth it. Sure, they could just change teams, but that’s a hassle not too many people want to do.

    I have a feeling the place where SEE is really going to shine is GAC and TW. I’m sure a lot of the guilds my guild is matched against are probably going to heavily lean towards JML. I’m envisioning walls of Bastila-led JML teams. I can definitely see people doing it in GAC. I probably won’t play around with Sith fodder until the ultimate, since that will change a lot. But having an almost free win against JML is nice.

    Edit: I was doing more testing with SEE and he can use trash Sith to beat JML.

    My team:
    SEE (R7), Sidious (R7), Maul (R4), Savage (G12), and SE Sith Trooper (G12)

    Against (All R7):
    JKR, JML, JKL, GAS, and Wat

    I will say it is not a pretty win. I was down to SEE and he just rolled the other team 4v1. Now for the caveats.

    Savage does have his zeta, but it didn’t really do anything because he was basically taken out immediately. Sith Trooper only needs his finisher for G13, so I’m not sure if that qualifies as trash. I didn’t want to touch the core DR team (with Marauder) or Sith Trio.

    I did try the same team, but replaced Sith Trooper with Sith Assassin and lost. I may have misplayed. I took link off of GAS and I think that was a mistake. I hasn’t triggered savior yet and ended up doing so with GAS. I lost Savage and Assassin really early on and SEE just didn’t have the time to build up enough protection.

    Another possible wild card factor is Sidious. He’s got 35% dodge against Jedi and that combined with his high health kept him around for a while. There were a couple times in both battles where a dodge kept Sidious around longer.

    I do wonder if a Maul lead could work. That would be a 55% dodge for him and dodging might be useful for SEE. You’d lose the ultimate charge from linked enemies and the stacking mastery, but you’d still get the extra protection from the unique. More importantly, if you dodge an attack, you still get the 2% charge from a deceived enemy taking a turn. Is it worth it? JML’s first special, GAS’s basic, and JKR’s mass assist cannot be evaded. Same with JKL’s AOE stun, but that doesn’t do damage. Chalk that up to a maybe. I’m out of extra battles to test for now.

    All that being said, for the purposes of GAC and TW, I think it is unlikely you’d see people using that specific team. You’d be breaking up some good teams to put it together. My assumption is there would be Barriss or some other lesser Jedi.

    Another thing to consider is the leadership. All the JML teams in my arena are using JKR lead. A couple used Bastila for a day, but as soon as they were able to be broken, they got abandoned. SEE should be able to crush Bastlia because she doesn’t really do much for the team in terms of damage. SEE would suck away their protection and that would be it. JML lead is concerning because of the true damage before his protection is gone. He would also be taunting more, so I couldn’t attack everyone else as easily. Trash Sith might not be as effective.

    The last this is the ultimate. I’m doing all this without it. I suspect that I might have been able to win that Sith Assassin try if I had it. If I could like GAS and JKL and instantly defeat them, I don’t know if the survivors could have beat me. That does bring up an interesting question, though. The ultimate gives you a lot of damage, but you lose your ability to heal. That helps give SEE his durability. You might not want to use the ultimate until you have the opportune moment, assuming you only have SEE left. If anyone else is around, it doesn’t matter because SEE can’t be targeted by that point.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
  10. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    Alright, unlocked the ultimate on Sunday afternoon. What a difference it makes. I also did some modifications to my team for arena. I swapped out Sion and Bastila for Traya and Sith Empire Trooper. I totally missed in SEE's kit that Sith cannot be revived, so Sion is mostly useless in his team. The mass dispel is nice and the 'auto taunt', but if he can't be revived with Held by Hatred, he loses a lot of his value for me. The swap of Bastila for Traya actually made a HUGE difference. Her unique cleansing debuffs from Sith on each of their turns is a game changer as the usual strategy against SEE is to spam ability blocks to keep the team from using specials. Another benefit is, of course, Isolate. This team (others are DR and Malak) simply melts JML teams. It does quite well against Rey as well, though you have to be careful to pick your kill order intelligently.

    The nice thing is you could easily sub out DR and Malak for Sion and Nihilus and still be pretty solid here, which means that you're not losing multiple teams like you would to make the best Rey or JML teams for the most part. That's one of the best things about GL Kylo, he is best in a FO team so you're not taking key characters from another squad in TW or GAC.

    I will say that SEE's ultimate is probably the single most satisfying ability to use in the game. You definitely have the feeling of having unlimited power as the ability usually takes out like 4 characters at once. It's too bad that it probably would never have enough time to charge in regular battles, @Themistocles kids would love to see it in action!
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
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  11. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    Just wanted to chime in on these two points here with my experience. In my shard we have only less than 5 JML right now. I'm not sure if others have unlocked and are still gearing or waiting on the ultimate before swapping to him. The guy just before me in payout order has JML and he runs JML Lead, with GAS, Hoda, JKL, and JKR. The other teams that I have seen are using either JKR or JML lead with Jolee or Wat instead of Hoda. I haven't found a marked difference really between the two leads other than you have to deal with savior on JKR if he's in the lead. Otherwise you just kill him first then you don't have to worry about it.

    One really nice thing is that SEE's ultimate seems to charge a lot quicker than I thought it would in reading the ability. You do lose the recovery portion of his first special for the rest of the fight (gets replaced) when you activate the ultimate ability, and I suppose there are situations where you would want to time it when you're not low. However, in practice I will say that Unlimited Power is a show stopper and you will almost always KO at least three characters with it, and usually cripples or kills the rest. So waiting is just as likely to end up with you losing more characters while you're waiting for the 'perfect' time to pop it. I'm running my SEE at 13,822 special damage and 432 speed. I really haven't found speed to be super important on most of the GL's so I mostly focus on damage and I am running a crit avoidance arrow on SEE too. But none of my GL's have ever been modded above 500 speed, except for Kylo while solo'ing the sith raid. But for arena or TW/GAC, I haven't found it to be super important.
     
  12. Themistocles

    Themistocles Active Member

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    So is there any consensus on what the best in class SEE team is? Should Traya, Nihilus, or Sion be on my immediate gearing list after finishing SEE's ultimate?
     
  13. Stormlink15

    Stormlink15 Active Member

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    My opinion might not mean as much, but using Nihilus seems to put pressure on the opponent, and Traya's passive cleanse seems to be really important in matches with things like JML where they have a mass debuffs like ability block.
     
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  14. Dagor

    Dagor Well-Known Member

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    I'm using SEE, DR, Malak, Traya, and Sith Empire Trooper personally. I could see replacing DR and Malak with Sion and Nihilus for GAC or TW though to keep the DR team together. I think Traya and Nihilus are good fits in general. Traya makes it so that each character auto cleanses their debuffs at the start of each turn which is big to keep daze, ability block, and other troublesome debuffs off your guys. Nihilus is good in general though you have to keep in mind that Annihilate does NOT work against GL's. You can wipe out the other characters but it will just do 99,999 damage to a GL. I don't know about other people, but Nihilus is the one Sith Triumverate member that I opted NOT to relic at this point because it's not like he's going to benefit from the increased damage stats. He will benefit from the increase in health and protection though, so he's on my eventual list, but not an immediate priority. I just have him modded for a good amount of hp/prot to try and survive long enough to get off an annihilate where he will absorb extra stats.

    As for Darth Sion, he's a good tank, he has a mass dispel, and has decent health/protection pools. So he makes for a useful member of the team. That said, his Held by Hatred will not work (other than the health/prot recovery portion) because SEE's leadership ability prevents Sith from reviving in return for full health and protection recovery to dark side allies whenever a sith dies. So, he is a useful tank, but you won't get the full value out of him in my opinion, at least in arena when you have your whole roster at your disposal.

    As for others, I could see Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine being valuable for added debuffs. There are a lot of debuffs going around in general, so Vader could thrive and wreck face. The extra shocks from EP could be very helpful vs Jedi in general and JML more specifically in keeping him from getting to his ultimate.

    I like using Sith Empire Trooper, I just took him up to r5 today and now he is sitting at about 73% armor (plus he gets +100% defense from his unique and the defense up that he gets when a teammate uses a special or falls below 50% hp) and 68% resistance. I have him modded with about 140k hp/prot so he's still pretty stout. That means he's reducing hits by about 80% pretty much full time and that's HUGE. I'm half considering pushing him to r7 after seeing the differences at r5 vs G12. Do keep in mind that these numbers are mostly useless for things that deal true damage or something like Rey's Whirlwind of death. Those will still delete him.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
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  15. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    I was able to finish the ultimate for SEE, so I am officially done with him. I’ve been leaving him on defense and it seems to hold okay. Much better than without the ultimate. Though I do wish SEE could do his AOE attack immediately when you do the ultimate. As it is, waiting that one turn can be daunting when he’s the last one standing.

    I’m using Nihilus, Traya, Bastila, and Revan with SEE. Basically, I’m just trying to be as annoying as possible with the fear and cooldown increases until SEE is ready to transform.

    I am concerned with relic 8. I wonder if that’s going to be how we’re supposed to beat the LS Geo TB or if that’s going to give new abilities to characters. Either way, I think everyone is going to do their GLs before anything else.

    The other surprise is Moff Gideon is going to be a marquee event. That’s amazing news for me. I, like many others, assumed he would be a Legendary event. Now, it looks like the Beskar Mandalorian or the Child is going to be the big payoff character. And I don’t greatly care. Admittedly, I was curious why they used that version of the Mandalorian when he’s in the other armor for most of the season, but I guess it does make more sense if they wanted to milk two characters out of him.

    With doing SEE, my Empire faction is pretty nice and I was worried that Gideon would be so good that I’d have to go after him. Now that he’s just a regular character, I can have him (assuming he’s worth gearing) without going through the trouble of gearing the rest. I just don’t see much use for BH anymore. I already have a decent G12 team with G13 Bossk, so they can handle everything I need them for.

    But tying it back to SEE, I am very curious to see if Gideon is going to be a Trooper. As it is, Veers, Piett, and Strack are the core of the team. Gideon could become the 4th member of that core. That’s going to upset a lot of people who geared up two other Imperial Troopers for a full G13 team. And whether or not Death Trooper is going to be reworked at all. You figure he’s only got synergy with Krennic, but Thrawn and Gideon both used them. I don’t know, but I’m perfectly happy to wait it out and see what happens while I’m working on JML.
     
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  16. Themistocles

    Themistocles Active Member

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    So I thought I had asked the question but I apparently haven't. Has a best in class squad arena SEE team been identified yet? Re-reading some of the Electricboa and Dagor posts, it seems that Traya is a given. Or should I be able to climb using the top Sith that I have/will have in my pocket by this point?

    Also, if DR and or Fallen B are best in class to use with a SEE arena team, should I pull them up to R7 post SEE for the extra health and protection? Go all in on the arena team?

    The reason I ask is because I am trying to chart out my next couple projects post-SEE, but my main priority upon unlock will be properly outfitting him individually and also surrounding him with the absolute best possible team. If that means I have to relic Nihilus and Traya to R7, I'll do it to protect my SEE investment. I wukk have Traya at 7 stars by the time I finish SEE.
     
  17. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Not exactly. SEE is still a pretty rare character. I looked it up on swgohgg and there are fewer SEEs out there than any other character in the game. 3,457 total. JML and KAM are the next lowest at 7,466 and 7,855 respectively. So the pool for people figuring out the ‘best’ team isn’t that big.

    I’ve more or less settled on this:

    SEE (L), Traya, DR, Bastila, and Nihilus​

    But I know people also use Vader. Sion and OG Sith Trooper are popular, too. Malak works, of course. The good news is you really don’t have to R7 any of them. G13 is sufficient with any relic level. The main thing is the other Sith just have to survive long enough to let SEE stack protection and mastery. That doesn’t require all that much.

    Basically, you could use Malak, DR, Bastila, and Vader as-is and do just fine. You’ll dominate JML teams, so that’s not even a concern. Unfortunately, you can’t touch Kylo teams, so that’s also not a concern. Rey is the one you’re really putting together a team for. Rey will one-shot anyone with Sudden Whirlwind, so R5 or R7 won’t matter.

    As a general rule, I would avoid taking someone to R7 without a good reason. Trust me, it gets harder and harder to do the more to do it. R5 is pretty much my cap for most everyone. Especially because you might end up wanting to do Kylo after SEE. I still think SEE is going to have more value on an older arena like yours, but Kylos are going to be a hard counter for you. In a four-way meta like this, you kind of need two to be able to beat everyone. You do already have KRU at G12 and Emperor Palpatine overlaps.

    As far as Traya and Nihilus . . . it depends. Full disclosure, I already had Traya at R5 and just took Nihilus and Sion to G13 R5 and R4 yesterday. Traya and Sion are a powerful combo for G13 Geo teams, which I see pretty often. Nihilus was pretty much a vanity project so my arena team would be all G13. He really doesn’t need it. He’s got plenty of health at G12 or even G11. His whole gimmick is drain and annihilates, so damage means nothing to him. I would probably say don’t bother with taking the Sith Trio to G13 for now. There are a lot of other characters that have more immediate use.
     
  18. Themistocles

    Themistocles Active Member

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    Cool - it's good to know that I dont need to go relic chasing more Sith. That being said I'm confused when you said:

    "Rey is the one you’re really putting together a team for." Does that mean there's better compilations of SEE arena teams out there that might let me take on Rey?

    One last thought on SEE is moving over to GAC. I dont want to split up my DR team, so should I G12 the Sith Trio to go along with SEE? Otherwise I'll be sending him into battle with all the random Sith that don't have current homes such as Maul, Sidious, and Dooku. I think I'm hearing that SEE sucks on defense, and I believe I saw a video where a standard DR team (maybe it had Wat) took out SEE.

    So I'm planning on sending him primarily on offense to break down the toughest teams I'll come up against. Are all my weirdo SEE prog Sith toons good enough for that?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  19. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    No, what I mean is SEE will beat JML with almost any Sith team. So it doesn’t really matter much what you used against him. Kylo will always beat SEE pretty much no matter what. Rey can beat everyone, so for defense purposes you’re really only thinking about her. JML teams will never attack SEE and Kylo teams always will. It’s all about deterring or annoying Rey players to hold on defense. Beating Rey teams on offense do require decent Sith, though. It takes a little practice and the ultimate for SEE matters quite a bit. Without the ultimate, you’re relying on the rest of your Sith to do all the work.

    Yeah, SEE is not a great defense team. The good news is SEE is very good on offense. You can definitely use Sidious, Maul, and Dooku with him. There’s also a lot of teams that SEE can just solo. On offense, I’m not sure how it would do against DR. But I’ve seen SEE solo R7 Padme and GAS teams without trouble. For the most part, most non-GL teams should fall to SEE. And because he just needs Sith to be fodder, you don’t need to have really great Sith with him.

    The only issue is if you use a bunch of G11 or weak Sith against a team SEE can’t solo on his own. For example, I was trying out teams against JML. This team won:

    R7 SEE (L), R7 Sidious, R3 Maul, G12 Savage, and G12 OG Sith Trooper

    I replace Sith Trooper with G11 Sith Assassin and I lost. But keep in mind this was against a very well-modded JML team with JML, JKL, GAS, JKR, and either Hoda or Wat. Some of the best characters in the game and I was going up against it with fairly weak Sith. My problem was Assassin died way too quickly. SEE needs a few turns without JML and everyone else attacking him to build up his protection and mastery. But that’s still an extreme example.

    That being said, it certainly wouldn’t hurt to have the Triumvirate. They are good characters on their own and do work nicely with SEE.
     
  20. Marc Tessier

    Marc Tessier Well-Known Member

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    Players on the main forum keep saying SEE is crap and needs a buff, but they rarely go into detail. But since there are so few in the game, I suspect there's much the community hasn't learned about how to use him thus far. I trust your opinion as you always back it up with concrete reasons and go over both positives and negatives.

    I still haven't fully committed to going after him after I finish some of my neglected DS characters. For now though, I have the luxury of time before deciding. Perhaps CG will throw a major Mandalorian Legendary or Hero's Journey at us that will impact my decision. We know more Mando content is coming. Will it be Bo Katan, another Ahsoka, Dark Troopers?
     

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