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One shot kills

Discussion in 'Rants and Accomplishments' started by Kevthejedi, Sep 18, 2017.

  1. Kevthejedi

    Kevthejedi Active Member

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    I commented about this on another post, but I was wondering what opinions are on the one shot kill? Obviously Nihilus has his 'Annihilate' move, which by it's nature and starting on cooldown should be an exception to this.

    My main concern is Raid Han. Due to his shoot first, double shot, insane damage and ignore taunt, you can start a match and immediately lose a character (like TFP) before you've taken a turn. With the guaranteed stun you've lost that characters turn anyway (unless dispelled), but should you really start a match at a 4v5 disadvantage? Would it not be fairer to have that first attack as single shot only, or 50% (or less) damage?

    Chirrut is another example of this, although he can't bypass auto taunts, on a team that starts fully buffed he can one shot someone like TFP with full protection and health on his first turn.
     
  2. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    I do think Raid Han is a little too powerful. Even CLS. The two of them do way too much damage on their basic. The problem is there is a huge bias in favor of Rebels. They always did a ton of damage, but the trade-off was they were fragile. Once they started G11, that started to become a thing of the past and G12 only made it worse. It also doesn't help that TFP is so old and hasn't had a rework. So the power creep long since past him by. Empire should be the counter to Rebels, and they were for a while. It worked when Rebels did more damage, but Empire (for the most part) had a lot of health. That created a level of balance. We need to bring that kind of dynamic back somehow.
     
  3. SumiXam

    SumiXam Moderator Staff Member

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    DS still has some pretty heavy hitters in Nihilus, Boba, and Kylo to name a few. To me the disparity is in these amazing kits that the new LS characters are getting that are so broad. Luke and R2 have skills that affect the entire team or, at a minimum, LS characters. It allows boosting to so many more characters, especially already crazy combos like Chaze. The DS characters either don't have those types of boosts or they are so focused that it relegates them to very niche, often faction only, applications. It makes glass cannons, like Raid Han, exceptionally powerful and difficult to counter unless you run the same thing ... which is boring in my opinion.

    Ahnald, the YouTube guy, has been very vocal in his last few videos about the disparity between DS and LS characters right now. There was a time where the ratio of DS to LS was relatively even, but there is a large disparity in favor of LS right now. Those of us who invested heavily in DS last year when Palpatine came around really got thrown for a loop. I still don't have Chaze geared and lingered far too long getting R2 geared up while completely wasting a zeta on Savage.
     
  4. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    The problem with that is Boba needs a lot of buffs or debuffs to work. Maybe G12 makes a big difference, but my Boba always dies way before he could do anything to CLS teams. Same with Kylo. He needs to get damaged to get good attack numbers. That's fine when the enemy damage is reasonable, but he can't survive Rebel teams now. Even Nihilus, you need R2 to make sure the CLS counters don't destroy him long before he can Annihilate.

    Yep, and I've heard that some CG people don't even understand the LS bias. I know I was heavily invested in DS. Most of my Zetas are still DS, all except Thrawn and Nihilus are now pretty much useless compared to the new meta. The main thing that saved me was I started building up a Rex team pretty early on because I saw what they did to my Sith. I'm always a few weeks being the cutting edge meta, but I'm at least able to catch up. I don't regret any of my Zetas, though. At the time, they were all pretty much the best choice I could have made given the situation. Even Savage was useful, since it kept my Sith Arena-viable long enough to finish gearing my Chaze. Long term, he is probably the least useful Zeta I have. Sidious is more useful than him because of the DoTs.
     
  5. Marc Tessier

    Marc Tessier Well-Known Member

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    The game has its ebbs and flows. Nihilus led a big push to the DS for months and z-Maul ruled the Arena most of last winter and into the spring until R2 was released in May. R2 opened up the triple cleanse team and made Jedi viable (but only if you had GK).
    Thrawn brought the DS back somewhat, but CLS really opened the door for a lot of Rebel combos.

    A shard mate is running Thrawn lead with Shore, Death Trooper, Stormtrooper and Krennic. Only DT is G12 and he rarely drops outside of top 15. It's a very good team. He has great mods, which obviously help. I think his Thrawn has 275 speed. I couldn't even catch that with my z-QGj squad. I had Yoda at 274, including the +30 speed from z-QGJ's leader.

    Everyone was waiting and waiting for what we thought was going to be Jedi Luke. They gave us Bespin Luke, which is fine, and now he is the king of Arena. It honestly doesn't bother me that much as the meta will shift as it always does. Remember when practically everyone was running Palpatine leads with RG, ST Han, Rey and Lando?

    I can't speak for your shards, but while CLS dominates as the current meta leader there is still a fair amount of variety among the squads on my shard after that. Some have Fulcrum, others use Leia, Raid Han makes a lot of the teams, some are using Wiggs, Chaze is pretty common and Old Ben has made a comeback with a few teams. Some have true hybrid teams like CLS (lead) with R2, GK, Thrawn and Nihilus.

    They could make Empire relevant again by giving Palpatine a zeta for his leader and on one of his specials or unique. I'm sure they will, it's just a matter of when.
     
  6. Kevthejedi

    Kevthejedi Active Member

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    Having received 500 crystals this morning and seen the bug reports of excessive force it's possible my original complaint may have been related to that. Of course it's also possible that the team I was facing was just that strong, Raid Han as my example is putting out at least 30k damage every turn and every counter, not many can survive 2 hits like that.

    There is a heavy focus on lightside at the moment, as Marc has said DS did rule for a good few months at the start of the year which I really felt the pain of as I was so lightside focused. Between the Palpatines, Zaders, Zauls and Nihilus leads it was a very dark time. R2, and then triple cleanse (Hybrid with Nihilus?), and then CLS made lightside dominant again.

    The power creep is crazy though, and is why it is almost always worth investing where necessary to get the newest characters.
     
  7. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Nhilus and the whole Sith rework gave DS about 1 or 2 months in the sunshine, but even then Rex teams were a solid counter to it. It was just a matter of not a lot of people having Chaze at the time. So even when DS was 'on top.' LS never fell out of favor. And Thrawn didn't do anything for DS because all people did was put him on their mostly LS meta team. I think the initial Zeta release with zVader was the only extended period where DS was truly dominant.

    It does depend on the Arena you're playing on. If anyone tried to run an Empire team like that on mine, they'd be kicked out of the top 50 in a few hours. 275 is fast, but I've got Thrawns easily within striking distance of that on mine. Someone does have theirs at 275, actually. Mine is 269.

    My Shard is basically made up of these teams:

    CLS (L), Thrawn, Nihilus, GK, and R2
    CLS (L), GK, R2, Chirrut, and Baze
    CLS (L), GK, R2, Raid Han, and either Thrawn or Nihilus
    GK (L), Barriss, Nihilus, R2, and CLS​

    That's about 45 out of the top 50 in descending order. The top one is by far the most common. It's the one I use and is overally probably the most effective. There are still a couple Qui-Gon Jedi teams running around, but they struggle just to get into the top 50. There's one guy that used to be be in the top 10 all the time with his Jedi and rarely fall out of the top 20 . . . right now he's #44. There are a few still running the old Rex teams with or with or without Chaze, but again they can't hold top positions. A couple people are running CLS teams with Ahsoka Fulcrum in them. That's pretty much it for top 50. Not a single DS team at all.

    Yes, Thrawn an Nihilus make it on to a lot of teams, but those are the only DS characters in my entire top 50, and not everyone uses them. They're at the top because they are so useful they can be put into any team, not because DS is in any way a match for LS. You have so many variations of LS characters, but only even 2 DS in the mix. But with only a few characters just being rearranged for every team, the meta is about as uniform as it ever was. You've got a pool of about 10 characters making up every team.

    But what makes it worse is something like Territory Battles. Suddenly, everyone who focused on DS gets completely blind-sided because--surprise! DS is almost completely useless for progressing any further in the game. You mean you spent all your time working on Sith or Empire because they just happened to be the meta for a second?

    [​IMG]

    And now if you didn't happen to have a good LS roster, you're crippled in TB. Because over half of the possible points you can earn is only with LS characters. Of course, there's even extra special emphasis on Rebels. Now, could they do a DS Territory Battle? Sure, but does anyone for a second believe that they will? The best DS ever gets is equal footing, like with the AAT. You're fighting Separatists, but can used them on your teams. Why can't you fight the Empire with Imperials? There are a few narrow band events that require specific DS factions, like Empire or FO, but even then there are far more LS versions of those events and Rebels are used more often than any other faction in the game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  8. SumiXam

    SumiXam Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, the hurt to those of us who focused on DS characters when TB was launched is real. This last TB, I struggled because I could run the ROLO special mission, but had a difficult time clearing the Rebel mission because I had used two of my best Rebels, CLS & R2, to get through the special mission. I've realized how weak my LS roster really is. I am glad that I developed Clones because they can hand the LS missions no problem until the last encounter on P6. I'd say that's pretty good.

    The whales on my shard run the 3rd team on Boa's list with Thrawn in the 5th spot. It's a very difficult team to beat with the mods they are running. It all boils down to how quickly I can knock out Han and if I can stun him early on. If that falls into place, then I can win. If not, it's a toss up. He deals insane amounts of damage if unchecked. I don't worry about Chaze at all anymore. It's the easiest combo in the current meta to beat. A lot of people on my shard still run that combo because they had Chaze from the triple cleanse meta.

    I run the same team Boa does and I don't drop out of the top 20 overnight. It's a great team with a lot of control. CLS is DPS monster and everyone else pretty much is there to let him git er done.
     
  9. Empleror Palpestine

    Empleror Palpestine Active Member

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    It’s hard to believe that CLS and Zan came out two months ago already.
     
  10. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Only 2 months? It feels longer than that. Than again, I did rush to gear mine up the week after he came out, so that was a lot faster than any other character I've done.
     
  11. Empleror Palpestine

    Empleror Palpestine Active Member

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    I suppose it’s only been a week or so since CLS invaded top 200.
     
  12. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Things go a lot faster in the top 20. People had CLS out before I did. And I have no idea what happens outside of top 50 because that's as far as it lists for me. But I do imagine the meta slowly creeps its way down because more and more people have time to gear the characters. You really should farm Old Ben and Farmboy Luke if you want to get CLS this time around.
     
  13. Empleror Palpestine

    Empleror Palpestine Active Member

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    But I have to farm FO/Resistance for Rey, and Captain Han for TB, and gear for my arena, and chrissakes, it never ends.
     
  14. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    The difference being that CLS is only available once in a while. Everyone else is there all the time. I don't even think it would be worth trying for the new Rey. For one, FO Stormtrooper will take a lot longer than a couple months, so you won't be able to get BB-8 to 7 stars. That's assuming you could farm the Veterans in time, wherever they're put. You nearly ready for CLS and he's proven to be good. We have no idea what Jedi Rey is going to be like. Plus, CLS is needed for TB.

    CLS is supposedly coming back in early December, so you do have time to get ready. It'll be close, but very much worth it.
     
  15. SumiXam

    SumiXam Moderator Staff Member

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    ^This!!!! No point in speculating when you nearly have access to the hands down best character in the game. I honestly don't see the new Rey replacing Luke. Even if she is really good and works as a substitution, Luke will still be worthwhile to get.

    Take the path of least resistance.
     
    Marc Tessier likes this.
  16. Marc Tessier

    Marc Tessier Well-Known Member

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    I agree. CLS is here to stay. He will be a top toon in this game for some time regardless of how good the new Rey will be.
     

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