Discussion in 'Squad Help' started by Themistocles, Jun 29, 2020.
Yay thanks Reg! The kids will get a massive kick out of it.
So I found this Youtube channel "Still Plays" where this guy did a fascinating breakdown for still developing mid-range players where he advocated for holding many characters at G11 as a staging ground, until you are certain you want to spend the resources to selectively move the highest impact characters to G12 and 13. His premise for doing this is that 1) you keep your top 80 down as low as possible for GAC while 2) giving you the most flexible roster possible for GAC, since certain G11s are still fairly usable when partnered with the right G12 and 13s.
1) Would you agree his premise?
2) And more specifically for my kids' accounts...does this suggest I should stop their Geo gearing for now at G11 (excepting GBA and Spy whom I'd like to see at G12), and when they get their Padme team, they should stop at G11 for them as well?
The thought of not seeing Padme and Friends in decked out G13 as I'm accustomed to seeing, is somewhat sad, but would you say at their GP level (300K) and stage of the game, G11 for now is the right approach?
EDIT: Another statement he said which I thought was fascinating was that a Mk 5 Stun Gun is worth more than a zeta from a time investment or "ease of acquisition" mindset, and so he would much rather spend a zeta on a G11 to make the toon usable, rather than spending a Mk 5 without the greatest of care. Really interesting way to look at gearing, I thought.
I would tend to agree if your concern is GAC matchmaking. But they will start to fall further and further behind in things like arena and it will negatively impact their contributions in guild events, tb in particular. That said, if the kids mostly enjoy the 1v1 pvp aspect of things like gac, its sound advice
He’s not wrong, but that’s a very GAC-centered view. The problem with that is the arena.
My disclaimer is the main focus of my advice and strategy has always been more arena-focused. The idea being you get crystals from the arena, which help grow your account faster. And as you move through meta teams, they become your GAC teams. There are exceptions where I’ll go for a character that is more suited for a raid (like Visas for the early Sith raid) or GAC, but the eye is normally on the arena.
The crystal loss will hurt the most. Having a steady crystal income lets you do a lot without spending money. Without it, everything takes longer. You do get some crystals from GAC, but it’s a fraction of what you’d get from the arena—and that’s assuming you make it all the way to Kyber which is not a guarantee.
As far as the Stun Guns vs zetas, that’s basically what it will end up as. For me, I have a ton of zetas. I just gave 2 to Mothma on a whim and still have 80 left . . . and about 200k fleet tokens. For me, zetas are cheap. I will easily give someone a zeta because I have all the good zetas already done (for the characters I have geared). Some of the rarer gear, like a Stun Gun? I’ll hoard that like the One Ring.
It’s a matter of perspective. When you have no zetas, you see all the characters that need them and for you right then zetas are the most valuable thing in the game. Just like you with Malak, you want both zetas but don’t have enough. You can take him to G13 without any problem. But if you play long enough, you’re going to be getting those zetas and giving them out to all the key ones you need. At a certain point, you’re going to get to the point where you have everyone done and you’re limited by your gear. You want to gear someone to a minimum level before giving them a zeta. So you wait and keep getting more zetas while you try and gear characters. The balance will tip.
An easy example is Mothma. In my last GAC, my opponent used this team:
Mothma (L), Baze, Chirrut, Lando, and Cassian
Mothma was 3-star G7 with both zetas. Chirrut and Baze were G12, Lando was G13, and Cassian was G11. I underestimated that team and lost the match by a few points entirely because I was greedy and wanted more points. I liked the team and decided to gear up Mothma a bit to try that on defense next GAC. I already had everyone else at the same gear levels. After G7, Mothma needs 2 Stun Guns to go further. I dropped 2 zetas on her without blinking, but stopped dead because of those Stun Guns.
So one of my kids hit 85 and immediately grabbed Padme with his Geo squad and zeta'd her lead. So mods...I would assume to maximize Protection Up benefits, Padme should be health mods with health primaries...? Even at the lower gear levels?
And should the typical arrow NOT contain speed primary so she can be slower than everybody else so she can take on a DR squad right?
That's what I did with mine, but I did put a speed arrow on her. Mine is at 281 speed, which is fast for a mirror match, but when most DR teams are 300+ it seems to work just fine.
I also run my Padme with some decent speed (262). She is sitting at 94k hp though too. I do think it's important for her to have a baseline speed of at least 250 in order to execute some key counters like GG on offense. Some people do focus solely on HP, which is nice, but if she never gets a turn it doesn't matter.
I have a speed arrow on her, but Health primaries on everything else that can have it.
My Padme is sitting at 284 speed and 87k HP.
Like Dagor I have a speed arrow and all the Health Primaries I can.
Looks like I’m the slow one this time. My Padme is only 238 speed with about 97k health. She’s really just modded as a DR counter. I could probably bump up her speed, but that would require messing with the rest of her team, too. The important thing for a DR counter is that Padme goes after the rest of her team, so they kind of determine how fast my Padme can be:
GK – 240
JKA – 266
Ahsoka – 251
C-3PO – 262
Shaak Ti – 291
I don’t have a speed arrow on her, but that’s because it would make hr too fast. That being said, Padme isn’t really a team I use outside of GAC and even then it’s usually against G13 Geos. I usually use JKR against Grievous teams, so I’ve never needed her to be faster. In LS TB, health seems to matter more than speed most of the time, so she works for both.
And there are just other teams I tend to prioritize more with mods. If that’s going to be their main arena team, then their best mods would go on it.
Edit: Oh, and if you want, I switched my leader for Cantina and DS nodes to SEE. He doesn’t have the ultimate, but you could play around with it and see what you think.
Well, my Padme is modded completely differently. She's got speed and health sets.
Speed - 309
Health - 58k
Protection - 83k
To be honest, it all depends on how you're going to use the team. It looks like you have a lot of protection primaries (even if they are speed/hp sets) though and you would probably see better results putting health primaries on her. Protection Up is based on Max Health, not Max Protection. It is counter intuitive, but that's the reality so you're getting less Protection Up than you otherwise would if your health and protection numbers were switched.
From my experience (been running Padme squad arena since level 85) you won’t see any Darth revans for a long time. I’m even chilling in the top 300 and I don’t see any. I have Yoda as fast as possible, then Padme also as fast as I can get her with health sets.
My yoda is 250, and Padme and anakin are around 240. (I’m 750k gp)
It is weird how they calculate the Protection Up by basing it off Max Health. In my case, I believe I don't have health primaries with good speed secondaries on the triangle and cross. Not ideal, I know.
It's been a while since I looked at Padme's mods, perhaps I should take another look and see if I can swap some around from other characters. Once a character gets a full set of 6-dot mods I tend to consider them "done" and don't go back.
So! As we are almost done with G12-ing Geos with both accounts, we are due to start gearing up Padme, JKA, and Ahsoka in earnest. Probably 2 more weeks to be done with the G12 Geo project. GK is ~5 weeks away from unlock, although Fives is doing a passable job standing in until then.
Time to start thinking about the next project, and I do believe this is a next-level fleet. We are doing good holding steady with an Executrix led Geo-Trio crew and we are hovering between 10 and 25 in rankings every night.
Thankfully one of the best things I did was find a sizable guild that was willing to take my kids' accounts very early on when they were smaller, and so we have a little stockpile of GET II growing. I want to get ahead of the game here and pivot the kids' fleets straight away to a 5 star Negotiator or Malevolence fleet, and really cement our place in the early fleet shard rankings. At this point, what would be ideal for the kids' first major fleet?
Unfortunately my son jumped the gun and is going all in on the Malevolence before I could solicit your advice. However looking at the below Pro and Con list, I'm kinda leaning towards Malevolence.
TLDR of the below - I'm leaning Malevolence as I think we only have 1 guy we need to go out of our way to acquire (GG) versus getting 4 other toons which are out of our way. However this is somewhat offset in the fact that GG is harder to acquire through fleet store vs the other 4 guys.
From what I can see:
Don't need a ton of pilots, Geo Trio pilots will all be G12 soon and hit fairly hard. All these ships are fully levelled and their abilities are as high as we can possibly get them right now.
Considering we're about to gear a Padme squad, we have to go out of our way to farm GG, and gear him up as high as possible. From a GAC or Squad Arena perspective, this redirects gearing resources away from main focus teams. Also when we get GG, he has droids team readily available, although we can probably stick him on the Nute/Dooku/Magnaguard leftover team they have going on.
We have to redirect hard node regular energy farms to getting Hyena bomber and Vulture asap.
Doing a Padme team means that we have GK, JKA, and Ahsoka on hand and about to be geared at least to G12 in this early stage of their accounts.
Ahsoka's starfighter is already 7 starred on both accounts, and Ahsoka is G8/7 starred as a pilot on both accounts.
JKA is unlocked on both accounts at 4 star and G9.
Only 1 kid has a Houndstooth and its low levelled, low starred, Bossk is only 2 stars and G8. A BH squad is our next squad priority after Padme squad is done, but HT will take some time to fully outfit. 1 kid is halfway to Bossk unlock.
We have to redirect hard node energy farms to getting BTL Y-Wing
We have to go out of our way to farm and gear Plo Koon, Clone Sarge, Rex, Fives as well as acquiring their ships. These toons weren't on the squad roadmap just yet.
Malevolence is much more friendly to make viable early on. The main line-up you’re going to use is Vulture, Hyena, and either Sun Fac or Hound’s Tooth. Most of the time, the other Geos aren’t going to matter as much. Malevolence is going to summon extra Vulture droids, so reinforcements aren’t always going to play a huge role.
To that end, Bossk and Sun Fac are the only ones that really matter in the way of gearing. At 5 stars, the Malevolence can only have 2 reinforcements anyway, so you would have to leave someone off. Since Bossk really isn’t ready, he would be the obvious choice. And down the road when you do have access to all 4 reinforcements, the last one doesn’t matter that much. IG-88 is probably the most common, since it can heal the droid units and doesn’t take away from other fleets, but you’ll almost never call it in. The same kind of goes with Negotiator. The 4th ship will rarely matter one way or the other.
The Negotiator is overall a better fleet, in my opinion. It holds better on defense and can beat pretty much anything on offense. The Malevolence is close, but it lacks the ability to have variations like the Negotiator does. Every line-up will use Anakin, but the other two will come from Republic Y-Wing, Ahsoka, Fives, or Hound’s Tooth. The combinations offer certain advantages in different situations. And it’s a lot easier to leave out Hound’s Tooth if you’re in GAC and want to use it in another fleet.
All that being said, the Negotiator fleet has a much harsher gear requirement. Malevolence can be viable right away, especially because Vulture and Hyena need no pilots. Negotiator mirror matches can become an arms race with who has the better geared pilots, including GK. Whichever capital ship goes first has a big advantage, so you’re basically looking at having to have a R7 GK with MK 6 mods eventually.
And most of the pilots, like Anakin, Ahsoka, and Fives would eventually want to be G13. Obviously, that wouldn’t be right away, but it would be a race with other Negotiator fleets when more people start getting them.
So when it comes down to it, I would say Malevolence is the better one to go with first generally speaking.
Like Boa said, Malevolence is better at low stars because it can beat even fully geared Negotiator and other Malevolence fleets and the pilot requirement is much lower. I use Spy as one of my reinforcements because a lot of folks are using Han's Milf as one of the reinforcements for Malevolence fleets because Evasive Maneuvers makes it so you can't target it, which makes you kill off drone Vulture droids (which in turn feeds more TM to Malevolence). So you're hoping that Spy's forced taunt lands on Milf. But otherwise, Boa is correct that you rarely go beyond the second or third reinforcement with either fleet.
On the Negotiator side of things, I would actually add Rex's ship to the list of potential starters. I use Rex, Anakin, Y-Wing Bomber as my starting 3. It trips people up in mirrors because the opening is at best a coin flip and if my team goes first, you're probably losing a ship and it's usually Anakin, which completely neuters Nego's damage output. The reinforcements I use are Plo Koon, Ahsoka, Clone Sarge, and Fives but I almost never need more than Plo and Ahsoka and sometimes only need Plo.
So my son asked a question that made me stop and think for a sec - "When should we go after our first Galactic Legend like YOU are Daddy?" This made me pause and think for a bit. When IS the right time to go after a GL on a super young account?
So here is the roadmap as of right now-
1) We are for all intents and purposes done with Geo squad building. They will remain at G12 for the foreseeable future.
2) Padme squad building is next and we intend on getting this squad to about to G12 to replace the Geos in squad arena.
3) 3rd project was going to be - relic Grievous and build the guts of a Malevolence fleet (do we HAVE to have houndstooth for a Mal fleet?) Implicit in this is levelling up Bossk to G12 so he can bolster Houndstooth.
4) With a relic GG, we actually have the guts of a decent Separatist team with Nute lead, GG, Dooku, Magna, and maybe we level up Asajj or we pull Jango from the bounty hunters over here. We were going to gear these other folks up to say G11 as our 4th project. Implicit in this is levelling up Jango so he can bolster Sep squad.
5) 5th project is Phoenix to snag Palp and Thrawn. We have most of Phx already farmed, and G8+ should be not a problem.
6) 6th project is gear Empire squad so they are usable.
My kids' crystal income is pretty good. Should be around 290 to 340 a day, so the above stuff actually won't take too long. They are sitting on a good war chest of crystals 9K+ each.
After the 6th project we have a decision to consider...do we double down on a relic GG, and go all in on GAS?
Or do we go for a Galactic legend? Their squad shard is still young, so they have a chance to capitalize. Using @Electricboa 's philosophy and line of thinking, this makes me think of NOT doing GAS at this point and instead going all in on something like SLKR so that way their accounts now have a huge stick.
At this point after the 6th project they would be equally distant from SLKR as they would be from SEE and SLKR is the superior GL no? Plus SLKR would give two nicely self-contained squads, whereas SEE gives you pieces of squads that they wouldn't be able to capitalize with their nascent accounts.
I think the primary concern would be the vast amount of time it will take to get there from where they are at. Any GL at this point will represent a significant period of minimal relevant roster growth. The biggest point of bottleneck will be gear 12 gear for them. And you will a LOT. On the flip side, once they have slkr, he has the potential to swiftly increase their gear income through potentially higher raid rewards. Also he is great in arena. You can bet that anyone spending money on their shard is going that route
My son has the mentality for it. He takes after me and is a delayed gratification type kid. Unusually patient for the payoff.
(And he is INSANELY into SWGOH at this point. He would stare at his roster for 23 hours out of the day if I let him...and he slices his own mods now, and he knows what he's doing. He's getting +15 mods left and right. And often times he suggests 3 v 3 combos to me...that have worked.)
My daughter would be something else, but at this point I am 80% playing her account as a de-facto alt account so her impatience is not as much of a concern.
We already have GW pretty much farmed out for what they need for the short term. They are already going shard shop heavy out of there so that's one source of income. Another is a war chest of approximately 48K GET I that they are both sitting on that they are saving for GAS, but could be drained to support the G13 pieces for a possible SLKR chase.
Kylo would probably be the way to go for him. The only real weakness Kylo has is JML, and on a newer account there is very little chance he would run into one. More importantly, you’re going to have a lot more people going for SEE first because of the easier requirements and Kylo is a hard counter to him. He could realistically park himself at the top and not fall very far.
That’s in contrast to you going for SEE on an older shard where more people are likely to be getting JML as their 2nd or 3rd GL. SEE ironically has more value on older shards because those people are better able to do JML. I cannot imagine anyone doing JML as their first GL.
All things being equal, I think Kylo is best overall GL, especially for a newer account. It doesn’t sound like he has DR or Malak, so SEE would not be a great choice since he doesn’t have a lot of Sith to play with. You can work with the requirements for SEE, but the Triumvirate and DR teams are where you want to go for arena purposes. Kylo is nice because he’s self-contained. The requirements will be what you’ll use with him, so end up with the ideal team without any need to work on other characters.
Rey does fit that mold, but she still does better with Jedi and her Resistance isn’t as good as FO both before and after the GL. Besides, Kylo gives you raid viability, which like Dagor said would let him get more gear going forward.
As far as Hound’s Tooth, you don’t need it for a Malevolence fleet. But it is pretty much the best ship in the game and would make Malevolence better. I would say it depends. Bossk is a decent tank, even if he’s not in a BH team.
But as far as the GL, I would say Kylo would be the way to go.
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