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Lord Vader

Discussion in 'Characters, Skills and Equipments' started by Electricboa, Sep 8, 2021.

  1. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Developer Insights - Kit Reveal ]

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    UNIT NAME: Lord Vader
    ALIGNMENT: Dark Side
    CATEGORIES: Galactic Legend, Dark Side, Attacker, Leader, Empire, Sith
    Legendary Sith Lord who utilizes the actions of others to empower his own potential and is not to be underestimated.

    ------

    ABILITIES:

    Ultimate: END OF THE GALACTIC REPUBLIC
    Description: Requires at least 65% Ultimate Charge to activate.

    Ultimate Charge: Lord Vader gains Ultimate Charge when he uses Dark Harbinger and when debuffed Dark Side allies receive damage he gains 2% Ultimate Charge, increased to 3% if that ally was an Unaligned Force User.

    Lord Vader gains 50% of other Dark Side allies' current Mastery (stacking) until the end of the encounter, then they lose that much. Empire and Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies don't lose Mastery from this ability.

    If 100% Ultimate Charge was used, Lord Vader instead gains 75% Mastery from this ability, dispels all debuffs on himself, takes a bonus turn, reduces his cooldowns by 1, and gains Ashes of the Republic for 5 turns, which can't be copied, dispelled, or prevented.

    Ashes of the Republic: Lord Vader's abilities gain additional effects; enemies defeated while this is active can't be revived; Lord Vader is immune to Ability Block, Healing Immunity, and Shock; can't gain Ultimate Charge.

    Basic: VINDICTIVE STORM

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    FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Deal Physical damage to target enemy and if Lord Vader has 30 or more stacks of Underestimated, he deals damage again. Each time this ability deals damage in the same attack, it deals 25% more damage (max 50%).

    Ashes of the Republic: Deal damage again.

    Special 1: DARK HARBINGER (Cooldown 3)

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    FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Inflict Buff Immunity and Healing Immunity for 2 turns and deal Physical damage to target enemy. This ability deals 20% more Physical damage on subsequent uses (stacking, max 5 stacks)

    Lord Vader gains 1% Ultimate Charge and Empire and Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies recover 0.5% Health for each stack of Underestimated.

    Ashes of the Republic: This attack also deals true damage.

    Special 2: UNSHACKLED EMOTIONS (Cooldown 5)

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    FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Deal Physical damage to all enemies and inflict Daze and 4 Damage Over Time effects for 2 turns, which can't be resisted. For each stack of Underestimated, this ability deals 2.5% more damage, and all Dark Side allies gain 1% Mastery (stacking) until the end of the encounter.

    Ashes of the Republic: Inflict Ability Block for 1 turn which can't be dispelled or resisted, and increase target enemy's cooldowns by 2.

    Leader: MY NEW EMPIRE

    FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Dark Side allies have +20 Speed, +20% Mastery, and +15% Max Health, doubled for Empire or Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies.

    At the start of battle, other Empire and Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies lose all Protection and gain that much Max Health. If a Dark Side Unaligned Force User ally was present at the start of battle, for the rest of the battle all Empire or Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies take 30% reduced damage from enemy Light Side Unaligned Force User attacks. If all allies are Dark Side at the start of battle, Empire and Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies are immune to Fear, Empire Tanks gain Taunt for 2 turns, and when an Empire ally loses Taunt, they are inflicted with Marked for 1 turn, which can't be dispelled, prevented, or resisted.

    Whenever a Dark Side ally loses a buff, Empire and Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies gain 1% Mastery (stacking) until the end of encounter. Whenever a debuffed Dark Side ally takes damage, Lord Vader gains 2% Ultimate Charge, increased to 3% if that ally was an Unaligned Force User.

    Empire and Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies have +35% Critical Chance and Critical Damage when targeting a Galactic Republic enemy. Whenever an enemy critically hits an Empire or Dark Side Unaligned Force User ally, that enemy has -30% Critical Damage (stacking) for 3 turns.

    While Empire and Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies are at certain Health thresholds, they gain different benefits.

    • While above 35% Health: During an enemy's attack they are immune to Max Health reduction and other damage that is based on Max Health
    • While above 50% Health: They are immune to Damage Over Time and Thermal Detonator effects
    • While below 80% Health: Can't be critically hit

    Unique: TWISTED PROPHECY
    FINAL TEXT: (ZETA) Lord Vader is immune to Turn Meter manipulation and his attacks can't be evaded. At the start of battle he loses all Protection and gains that much Max Health, and Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies gain Speed Up and Stealth for 2 turns.

    At the start of each of Lord Vader's turns, enemies are inflicted with 2 Damage Over Time effects for 2 turns, which can't be resisted. Enemies with Damage Over Time effects can't gain bonus Turn Meter.

    At the start of each other character's turn Lord Vader gains 1 stack of Underestimated (max: 60), doubled for Galactic Republic and Jedi enemies.

    Underestimated: Vindictive Storm, Dark Harbinger, and Unshackled Emotions gain additional effects.

    Unique 2: GALACTIC LEGEND
    FINAL TEXT: (ZETA)This unit takes reduced damage from percent Health damage effects and massive damage effects. They take massive damage from destroy effects (excludes raid bosses) and are immune to stun effects.

    This unit has +10% Max Health and Max Protection per Relic Amplifier level, and damage they receive is decreased by 30%.
     
  2. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, LV is indeed an Empire GL as I thought. I think we can safely say he’s got the worst requirements for his kit of any GL. The only Empire unit you’re required to get is Tarkin. So you basically have to gear up an entirely new team for LV to use. At least before, you could actually field a team for the GL using their requirements, even if it wasn’t ideal.

    The kit itself looks interesting. I can see how the similarity to Nihilus’ leadership (but better in every way) could lead to some fun interactions. Obviously, we’re intended to use Maul on the team for no logical sense other than money, but I can see a couple interesting alternatives.

    First, the fact that Royal Guard is there is hilarious. I guess it would be annoying to use on that team because it taunts when allies fall below 50% health. But what about KRU? He recovers 8% health when he takes damage and he’s an unaligned DS Force User, so he would get his protection converted.

    I find it a but funny that Vader and Thrawn are recommended right after they were nerfed. Gideon makes sense. But it does seem like LV is intended for people who already have SEE.

    The kit overall looks very anti-JMK. The team being immune to critical hits below 80% health is probably intended to prevent SLKR from dominating the team. I don’t see any reason Rey wouldn’t be a good counter, though. I don’t see anything specifically against SEE, though.

    Personally, I’m happy I went with LV over Rey because I actually have a lot of Empire units geared.

    Edit: Looks like Royal Guard also got a touch up. He looks a lot more useful now. And he got a zeta.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021
  3. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    Hooooooly crap I just took a detailed read through the SEE vs JMK nerfs and my God. It's over, I see no reasonable way my SEE counter or the Stealth Counter works now. Goodbye top 2, it was nice to be there for about ~9 months.

    If LV hard blocks JMK climbs in arena, that would definitely sway me to go hard in on Executor.
     
  4. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, they pretty much killed that counter. I think there are SLKR counters to JMK, though. I wouldn’t give up hope entirely.

    But as far as LV vs JMK, we won’t know. I saw some of Ahnald’s stream and pre-ultimate with no Maul, JMK easily wins. Even when we see the ultimate, we won’t see Maul for a couple months.
     
  5. Marc Tessier

    Marc Tessier Well-Known Member

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    Not really sure what to make of this kit. There's loads going on, as usual, with a new GL.

    LV's base speed is 390, compared to JMK's 385. Both SLKR and Rey are quicker than LV.

    I'm curious whether his ultimate will charge as quickly as JMK's. It doesn't seem like it just from reading through his kit, but we won't know for sure until we see it in action, especially with Maul.

    A bit of Malak baked into LV's kit with all Empire and DS UFU losing all protection and gaining that much max health. They are also immune to max health reduction when above 35% health, which nullifies much of GSky's usefulness.

    From his leader ability:
    "If a Dark Side Unaligned Force User ally was present at the start of battle, for the rest of the battle all Empire or Dark Side Unaligned Force User allies take 30% reduced damage from enemy Light Side Unaligned Force User attacks."

    This reduces the effectiveness of both CAT and Rey.

    I'm so glad I went for SEE over SLKR. Part of my thinking at the time was that the Empire and Sith factions had more viability moving forward compared to First Order.

    All in all, I preferred the GL's being released in pairs. It made the game more fun with players having a choice of which one to focus on first, leading to a more diverse Arena. You also get a strong feeling there are 2 tiers of GLs now -- JMK and LV in the top tier, and then the other 4.
     
  6. Skywlkr76

    Skywlkr76 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think RG would be useful now in a standard Empire team, for say GAC?
     
  7. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Royal Guard is now actually more of a tank than before. His special lets him taunt and he still has the emergency taunt if someone falls below 50% health. Giving Empire allies retribution with his special is also nice. The health up is mainly for LV teams.

    It is very clear Royal Guard is intended for LV. You’re talking about a massive health pool. RG gets 5% of the Empire leader’s max health. LV can have upwards of 300k health when all is said and done, so that’s around 15k for RG. Then, it depends on if the unique takes affect before or after LV’s leadership coverts everything to health. You could realistically be looking at RG pushing 300k health, too, if it doubles after the protection is converted.

    Outside of a LV team, it’s harder to say. It definitely looks like he would be the tank of choice for a Palpatine team. Let’s say we get the last Imperial Remnant character for a Gideon team, both Shoretrooper and Stormtrooper would end up in Trooper teams, so you need something for Palpatine and the rest.

    Does that make RG good? Or even worth going for? Eh . . . I’m not sure. I think anyone who is going for LV is going to gear him because the touch up is designed to for with LV. People who did SEE got a nice buff on a character they already geared. I gave mine the zeta right away, as did others who have SEE in my guild. I’m going for LV, but would have given the zeta anyway. Plus, it boosts the Emperor’s shuttle a bit, which I do put on defense in GAC.

    But if I didn’t already have it geared from SEE and wasn’t going for LV, then I probably wouldn’t gear him. Outside of Troopers, Empire teams took a big hit with the Vader nerf.
     
  8. Skywlkr76

    Skywlkr76 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I took a look at his gear requirements, he needs 5 stun guns to get to G12. I can find a lot of better uses for them than him right now. Maybe one day, but I'm a long way from worrying about farming for LV or SEE at the moment.
     
  9. Marc Tessier

    Marc Tessier Well-Known Member

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    Two players in my guild have already unlocked LV. One of them is our leader. He's amazing at resource management and has never spent a dime on the game. Only GL he's missing is SEE and he's got a 7-star Executor to boot. The other, I believe, is a whale. His collection tips the scales at 8.4 million GP and he's got all 6 GLs now.
     
  10. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Only one in my guild has him. I’m not exactly sure if he was just hoarding or what, but LV is his 3rd GL. He also has JML and JMK. 7-star Executor, too. I know there are a few others who are actively working towards it.

    I think there’s one or two in my arena, but they’re still using JMK because there’s no reason not to until Maul comes out.

    I’m still estimating about 2 months, maybe 3, for me to get LV.
     
  11. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, I fought my first official LV with Maul and I am underwhelmed. The team I fought was:

    LV R8 (L), Vader R8, Piett R9, Maul R8, and RG R5​

    So it’s a high relic team with good mods. Maul is 348 speed. But let’s start with my own uses.

    I recently unlocked my own LV and have him at R6, but my Maul is stuck at G8. It’ll take me a good month before I’m actually ready to field the final team. LV kind of sucks. Without Maul, I might rate him as the worst GL. He’s almost laughably bad. The best thing he has going for him is his DoTs, which is great . . . unless the other team can cleanse. In which case, you’re never going to get anywhere. The obvious answer is to use OG Vader lead, but then you miss out on LV’s leadership, which makes Royal Guard great.

    They designed LV around Maul, that is painfully obvious when I fought the team I listed above. He got to his ultimate quickly and Maul can be devastating if left unchecked. Personally, I suspect that people might be trading out Piett for Shoretrooper or KRU. Piett is nice on offense, but on defense you need to protect Maul and double tank seem to be the go-to strategy for protecting a key unit.

    Maul is not hard-coded to go after CAT, which is good and bad. I’m not generally a fan of them putting their thumb on the scales. Though to be honest, it makes LV’s team all that worse on defense. If Maul does target CAT, then you can cleanse the DoTs with your GK. If he targets your GK, you can annihilate Royal Guard. It’s not exactly a great situation either way for LV.

    Anyway, the name of the game seems to just be stall until Royal Guard isn’t taunting or you get to your ultimate and go after Maul. Once Maul is gone, you’ve basically won. OG Vader can get frisky, but that’s it. LV doesn’t do much on his own team aside from the DoTs. Maul does let LV get to his ultimate very quickly, but it doesn’t seem to really matter to JMK teams.

    Now, everything I said is with my own JMK team, which is all R8, except OG Ahsoka at R7. That’s a very well-reliced team and I have good mods. Other GLs might not fare as well. But it is very clear that is you don’t have Maul, LV isn’t the GL for you.
     
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  12. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    So it seems like JMK is still a team worth going after. This is good to know. Do you think you could have beaten this LV with an R8 GAS? I'm wondering if GAS is still worth R8 post nerf.
     
  13. Marc Tessier

    Marc Tessier Well-Known Member

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    My shard's resident whale unleashed his Lord Vader/Maul squad today and I wasn't all that impressed either.

    He had LV, Darth Vader and Maul at R8, Piett at R9, and RG at R3. I had watched Infinem's video and learned to save JMK's damage immunity special for his second move in case CAT is targeted and has her cooldowns increased. So, CAT killed RG, then I went after DV until JMK's ultimate, then took out Maul. From there it was just mopping up. I didn't check the mods though.

    I used the standard JMK/CAT squad. JMK (R8), CAT (R7), GAS (R8), GK (R8) and Ahsoka (R7).

    It makes me wonder whether CG steps in and buffs LV considering the extremely steep requirements to unlock him.
     
  14. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    You do need GAS at R8 for LV, so I had to have him there either way. Short answer is now. I think pre-Maul, GAS teams could beat LV, but Maul will change that. He’s basically the heart of the team now. GAS teams just don’t have any way to get around the taunt and you need that to get to Maul

    On a larger picture, how useful is a R8 GAS? There are two force missions in LS TB that require GAS, so you would benefit from R8 there. As ide form that, GAS is good for both JML and JMK teams. GAS and JKL are the best non-GL Jedi you can use, so they’re always going to have use under JML. GAS is the only Republic of the two, so he’s the only one JMK would want.

    The nerf really did weaken GAS, but for a JMK team everyone still uses him. He’s kind of the best 5th choice by default. I personally think KAM is better if you’re in control, but the AI misplays him so badly that isn’t not really worth it. Mine is R7, but I have heard that at R8, KAM is scary. Mine already can hit very hard.

    I would say he’s not as useful as he was pre-nerf. You’re never going to use GAS over SLKR in arena. But once you have a Jedi GL, then GAS will have some use again, arena-wise.

    I think that’s very possible. I mean part of the problem is JMK came out first, even though they’re supposed to be a pair. JMK’s requirements are a lot easier, but he’s better than LV. LV does well against the other GLs with Maul, but everyone is comparing him to JMK. As it is, I don’t think the character is anywhere near worth the requirements.

    As far as the final team, there is now talk about just going 3 tanks with LV and Maul. Right now, there are only four: Royal Guard (he’s always going to be there), Shoretrooper, Stomrtrooper, KRU. I did hear one anecdote where someone had an R7 Stormtrooper and he was a time-out. That extra defense combined with crit immunity under 80% health is pretty powerful.

    The only problem with that is it won’t stop JMK. As soon as he gets his ultimate, Maul is dead. Against every other GL, I think that would be very powerful. I do have Shoretrooper at R5, so that would be serendipitous.
     
  15. Themistocles

    Themistocles Well-Known Member

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    I should have phrased my question better. Do you think R8 GAS in a JMK team is necessary in order for the JMK to beat a LV/Maul team?
     
  16. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    I don’t think so, no. He was probably the least useful when I fought a LV. Can’t try it again because they switched back to JMK. Not a lot of people are even trying to use LV because of how easily JMK wins. But GK gives you a cleanse, which is important for the DoTs. CAT is your main damage with OG Ahsoka for the assists. I could have changed GAS and I doubt it would have mattered.

    A lot of people are using R7 GAS on their JMK teams in my arena. They weren’t going for LV, so they just put that R8 on someone else.
     
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  17. Marc Tessier

    Marc Tessier Well-Known Member

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    I'm torn on this one. As far as lore goes, Master Kenobi should be better and with Kenobi being one of my favorite characters I'd be pissed if he couldn't defeat Lord Vader.

    But based on the money/time and resources needed to acquire LV, he's pretty disappointing.

    CG was rather clever by releasing the Road Ahead today. It shifted the entire conversation away from LV and Maul.
     
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  18. Skywlkr76

    Skywlkr76 Well-Known Member

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    You don't really think they did that on purpose, do you? (asked in my sarcastic voice)
     
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  19. Electricboa

    Electricboa Moderator Staff Member

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    Thematically, yes, JMK should win. But CG is the one that decided the requirements and with substantially higher requirements comes higher expectations.

    I think part of the problem is LV more or less needs Maul to be good. JMK can work without CAT just fine. Making it so the viability of a GL is depended on another character doesn’t feel right. Even with a tank like JML, you can get by on his leader ability alone for decent damage. I’m not saying LV has to be able to solo teams (though the other two DS GLs can), but the fact that the most important character in a GL’s team isn’t the GL is strange.

    Even right now, there are people in my arena with LV and Maul fully reliced, but they dare not use them because they’re so easy to beat. Apparently, JML can also win fairly easily, from what I’ve heard. SEE and SLKR will probably always struggle because of no protection and the crit immunity below 80%. Rey will probably be able to win, but a lot is going to come down to what team she has.

    Some of it might also stem from the expectations JMK set. He’s so good at so much that people want his counterpart to be close.
     
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  20. Marc Tessier

    Marc Tessier Well-Known Member

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    Well I have unlocked Lord Vader and got him up to R6. I'm not too far off on R7 -- just need to craft a zimbiddle and farm a handful of rare signal data.

    I took a peek at how Boa modded LV and tried to duplicate it as best I could. My guild leader also recommended going heavy on protection since it gets converted to health at the start of battle. The results turned out really well.

    Boa's LV:
    Health - 117K
    Protection - 184k
    Speed - 573
    Damage - 10,534
    Crit Damage - 192%

    My LV:
    Health - 120k
    Protection - 182k
    Speed - 572
    Damage - 8,815
    Crit Damage - 150%


    With my LV at R6, he will still gain a fair chunk of health and damage by making the jump to R8.

    The biggest differences in our modding are the triangle and cross. Boa has a critical damage triangle, whereas I have a protection triangle. In my case, the +26 speed on that mod was too good to pass on. Boa's cross has protection as the primary stat. Mine has health.

    Only one of my LV mods is maxed. Four of them can be sliced twice more, and the arrow can be sliced another three times. When all is said and done, I think this set of mods will be rather nice.
     
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